Huh? I always go out of my way to specify in my night orders to alter course if the “ice wall” encircling the earth is spotted. So… 
3 Likes
You’re joking of course but the thing is even if you analyzed things outside your expertise in a “flat earth” manner within your area of expertise you would very much stick to reality.
Say a second mate that good with charts but bat-shit insane about some conspiracy theory . Second mate is OK for that type kept on a short leash but senior officers need to judge matters beyond the scope of their expertise.
I was thinking that the worth of this book was (at least for me) to reinforce that no matter what else BS is it is not real. Not even as real as a bald-faced lie. Which as others have pointed out can demonstrated to be false and perhaps the motivations of the liar ferreted out and accounted for.
Stating that BS is not real may appear so obvious as to be not worth remarking on but it’s worth considering what that actually means. Again assuming we accept the definitions discussed in the book. And I’m going to try and stick to how I’ve seen this in a work setting.
It seems to me even an otherwise rational person may lie for many reasons but the use of BS as a primary rhetorical technique seems to come from some other place, perhaps an involuntary spew center in the brain. To resort to that phony mode in a technical discussion has no purpose. It is as KC mentioned above like listening to them tell you about their dream when what you need is to know how something works or why they took the action they did.
It is not so much the immediate response that is in doubt for a simple “what the fuck are you talking about” or “are you fucking crazy” may get them to pull up. Of course I’m looking at it from the CE perspective so a junior engineer may have to find more diplomatic way to point that out. Nevertheless, I’m wondering how a supposed technical person would choose to resort to his sincere feelings about stories about the problems rather than you know, facts and evidence.
I don’t think it is a matter of competency for someone less competent should merely do their best in the situation, offer theories, solutions etc and be prepared to defend their thought process and you know, learn.
Not so for the BS artist. He may not even be there in a very real sense. Any morsel of pseudo information is fed in to the ejecta spewing forth in a hope to what? Stump the professor? Actually convince someone of something? Shake head, lament the loss of critical thinking Lee Shore laid out above.
Naturally how we got here is interesting but I also wonder if one so constructed can change? Would be bad enough if it is a ship’s officer and for that there are remedies (run ‘em off) but when it’s a technical manager or port engIneer or other manager it is depressing.
Is this a goose / pâté sort of situation? Have some folks been force fed such a non-stop stream of BS for so long that the wet wiring has been altered? Do they imagine themselves on the tube holding forth to the rapt attention and admiration of the masses? Everyone is a star. Speculation not very germane I suppose. Not meant to be a generational indictment by the way.
Conclusions? Do not accept BS as engineering or at least put up a fight.
1 Like
" Every classification throws light on something" - That’s what Isaiah Berlin said about the surprising popularity of his essay The Hedgehog and the Fox
The word confabulation comes to mind, as well. In this American Life there is an interesting episode about “Jackass monthly” that comes to mind.
Stories about the pitfalls of knowing just a little bit too little.
1 Like
The media is complicit in perpetuating BS. The reporter in the above video clearly thinks these folks are crackpots. Nevertheless, the report perpetuates their legitimacy by taking them at their word about growth of the movement while filming 3 or 4 dozen adherents.
It clearly reflects their flat earth theories as BS but perpetuates their claim that their movement is growing without a shred of supporting evidence.
A specific line of BS may not be real, but the phenomenon of BS is very real. It seems like most of what we hear is BS. Or at least, there is so much BS, that we have to suspect that most of what we hear might be BS.
@ Lee_Shore. Yes, very much so. I was first aware of this when President Nixon’s first VP Spiro Agnew attacked the media for editorializing in very subtle and indirect ways. He made the case that they could editorialize not only by what they say but what they could choose not to say or omit that could make quite a difference in the overall message. Of course the media started sorting thru Agnew’s dirty laundry and found all kinds of bribery on highway contracts that lead to his impeachment.
This came to be known as power steering with words.
@ tugsailor An old saying I used to hear when I was a kid went,
“believe none of what you hear and half of what you see”. Then life may be more bearable.
What does BS have to win? To cause reasonable men to give up and give in in exasperation.
And news networks, including big ones like CNN and FOX and have elevated it to a whole new level aimed at the demographics their advertisers are trying to reach.
1 Like
Spewing bullshit is just another way of asserting dominance. When two persons engage in a BS war, he with the greatest oratory gifts tends to persevere. Since this leads to questions being settled without a meaningful exchange, it becomes another form of authoritarianism in the professional context. When BS comes from below, you get to shake your head and say “OK, now go re-pack that valve stem like I told you to.” When it comes from above, you have little recourse but to do as you’re told, no matter how nonsensical it is.
I remember one yard manager I worked for a long time ago, who was not just incredibly lazy, but also a bit… strange. He would drown me in deluge of bullshit as a way of justifying why I should engage in administrative tasks, and why I should perform sub-par work. I found it absolutely unbearable, and quit my job after a short while.
1 Like
BS, meaning language that doesn’t map to reality, on a vessel is a luxury in a way. It comes at the expense of the safety margin. Vessel with large margins can afford it at the cost of higher risk.
When I worked in Alaska on the small vessels, tugs and the small freighter we could not afford to depart far from the reality of our situation. Any errors we made were soon made apparent from feedback from the sea, weather or the navigation situation.
In the military with large crews BS is kept under control by replacing it with chickenshit, like keeping your shoes polished.
With large commercial deep-sea vessels the amount of BS depends upon the command. In many cases it can be quite high in my experence.
1 Like
Ahhh, the sweet sound of squishy BS impacting the unyielding rocks of reality. Nothing else is quite so satisfying.
Indeed, the very existence of bullshit is indicative of how good we have it. In a situation where people are fighting tooth and nail against the infant mortality rate, there’s no space for such digressions.
1 Like
This is why I think on large vessels with more complex operations it’s important to have an explicit plan.
After the operation the difference between the plan and how things actually unfolded represent how well reality was understood before the operation.
This is also why poor mariners don’t like plans, they don’t want any after action reviews that would show how poorly they understood the situation.
3 Likes
Quote of the week.
2 Likes
The Flat Earth International Conference will in 2020 charter a cruise ship to sail to the edge of the earth. That presents an ironic problem as the ship will navigate with the help of GPS and that system proves in fact that the earth is round! In total 24 satellites are necessary to cover the round Earth. If the Earth would be flat only 3 satellites are needed.
More than 2000 years ago Aristoteles observed the curved shadow that the planet Earth casts on the moon and concluded that the Earth was round. With a flat Earth it would have been a thin line that is projected on the Moon’s surface.
But all these things donot impress the true believers, probably totally bored nitwits.
With the ice melting at an unprecedented rate and in order to avoid this from happening:
I am more specific. I tell the guys to do a 360 and get the hell away from the edges.
1 Like
On the internet quite a number of bullshit generators can be found. My favorite one is a Dutch site which can generate with the click of the mouse elaborate bullshit sentences or memo’s like this one:
In any case, management sets requirements for the flexibilisation of unambiguous organizational units, whereby the interests of the steering committee are driven. Knowledge management places particular demands on the approach of structural protocols that drive policy coherence. The first step is also inextricably linked to the integration of efficient protocols that drive communication commitment. Knowledge management is in particular the starting point for the feedback of problem-solving teams in which the framework for the ministry is managed. The process therefore sets requirements for the feedback of a consistent solution.
Total bull, neat huh? You can also generate sentences which a number of presets which you can choose from.
If you listen carefully you can detect BS in managers’ or CEO’s speeches. Almost nobody understands what they are saying but not to look stupid they think it is a brilliant speech. It is a widespread phenomenon, also in the media and on television. Beware!
2 Likes
One of my favorite takes on corporate BS:
4 Likes
2 Likes
This one’s my favorite. Hell, I want to believe it too. I want to believe my military is capable enough to secretly transport thousands of tons of chemicals to every airport in the world without leaving behind a single shed of verifiable evidence.
Unfortunately the truth is we can’t even keep important state secrets, secret.
2 Likes