Speaking entirely out of my ass, I feel like the powers at be will be hiring consultants who have the necessary experience if it falls outside their scope. I have heard rumors of these consultants, usually tapped as expert witnesses in Admiralty law cases, and I could imagine they would be the people answering questions the alphabet folks may not know the answer to.
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The only thing the pilot could have done differently was to keep the tugs until they got past the bridge.
But that wasnât how they operated, so they had no reason to do it. I would think the NSTB will mention that, but hard to fault them for that if itâs been the SOP for however many years.
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Did the engine room have the other guys from 911, they only learnt how to get a ship off the dock, no need to go far?
Just more sensationalism.
Interesting that they seemed to have trouble releasing the anchor brake. Maybe it was hydraulic and would not work during blackout, possibly the time you might really need it. Something to ask about in the future.
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In regard to the delay in letting go the anchor:
The riding pawl on some ships can be massive and require multiple people to lift clear before the anchor can be let go. My shipâs pawl is not a counter weight type, and requires two people to lift and pin to allow anchor release. Then again with these ships almost never anchoring the brake sometimes needs encouragement via sledge to shake it loose.
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One reason why we always had the pawls up at departure. Ours wasnât that hard to operate, but in the heat of the moment, the less things to remember to do the better.
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Whoever made that windlass diagram is deeply misinformed.
to be clear - I was not blaming the pilots here - or actually anywhere - did a great job - esp the most important part - closing the bridge traffic.
also firmly believe - even the best can and do miss stuff when it goes to hell. Sucks to be human.
without a doubt, machinery malfunction at an awful time was the primary cause here
But purely on a professional level - i still have not seen an answer on if they had rudder control after the lights went out. Feel this a critical piece of information on this one.
Yeah, the head pilot made that decision in a minute. He definitely saved lives acting that quickly.
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Hi Tex,
I have just watched Salâs breakdown of the timeline .
He is pretty convinced that they didnât have rudder control until shortly before the bridge strike and he may well be correct.
I have always maintained that at that speed Dali would have had rudder authority and she would have responded to a port 20 or hard port rudder.
The only times (twice) I have suffered blackouts during my Piloting career have been during daytime so I have been able to see the rudder angle indicator and hence seen where the rudder was . What I donât know is if they have emergency lighting.
I always had a small Torch (flashlight) to hand.
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yea - not really sure yet on the transcript there is some conflicting points -
from memory now -
at one point the helmsmen reports unable to maintain the ordered course and the reports the rudder is hard port.
after this report - the pilot orders port 20
those 2 quick reports are hard to put together for me.
either with all the confusion the pilot was just responding to the helmsman report of his inability to maintain course along with a swing to starboard - and the port 20 was just his auto reaction to that and didnât hear or process that the helmsman thought the rudder was hard port.
or the pilot did check the RAI and either was not readable or was not at hard port - and ordered the port 20
again - not a blame here - with the ship gone dark, alarms ringing, the ship swinging and bridge getting big in the window - lots to process.
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I would think that if the pilot knew he didnât have steering, you would have heard something from himâŚeven if just a comment like âshit, weâve got no rudderâ or something to that effect.
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Like you Tex I am not pointing any fingers but the Port 20 order does seem a strange one
Maybe as you say an auto reaction.
Or even just checking that there was actual movement of the rudder possible
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Cross posted with you 3M
Good point
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LoL and Dr. Sal didnât seem to catch it. Not that the chain would go around it, but do they call gypsy heads âgypsy wheelsâ now to avoid casting any claim of being anti-Roma?
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Iâve always known it as a wildcat in American ships, and a riding chock is not a riding powel, chain stopper is a pawl.
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Without more information understanding whatâs happening takes some guesswork.
Looks like they lost propulsion here:
0125:00.3
PILOT? oh #.
But the helmsman and 2/m report they still have control of the rudder:
0125:14.4
PILOT do we have steering?
0125:16.1
2ND we have steering.
0125:16.4
PILOT do you have steering?
0125:17.1
HELM yes sir. yes sir.
Edit:
The pilot acknowledges the helm and orders a course of 141 degrees.
0125:18.6
PILOT one-four-one.
0125:20.6
HELM one-four-one sir
At about the same time the captain making preparations to let go the anchor
0125:47.0
HELM swinging to starboard wheel on hard port sir?
This is when the report is made that steering has been lost.
The training pilot (PILOT_T) reports to pilot dispatch:
0126:01.6
PILOT-T @[AMP Pilot Dispatcher] have them shut down the Bay Bridge. I just lost steeringâ not the Bay Bridgeâ the uhâŚKey Bridgeâ
0126:10.3
HELM we are swinging to starboard
sir.0126:11.9
PILOT port twenty.
0126:13.1
MAST port twenty.
0126:13.4
HELM port twenty sir.
0126:15.0
PILOT port. [shouted.]
0126:15.8
HELM yes sir. port twenty sir
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This, to me, means that the helmsman is saying that the wheel is hard to port, but the ship is swinging to starboard. Meaning the rudder is moving, but not effective.
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