[QUOTE=ombugge;187637]Barrels?? what about KIPS, FOOT/LBS, FAHRENHEIT and all the other totally irrelevant measures???
When will you guys learn how to use a simple system like the metric?? Just because Ronald Reagan didn’t doesn’t mean it is rocket science.[/QUOTE]
Does it really bother people that much? Download a converter on your smartphone, use a little booklet full of conversions. Write down common ones somewhere. It’s not really that hard.
[QUOTE=Rafterman;187696]Does it really bother people that much? Download a converter on your smartphone, use a little booklet full of conversions. Write down common ones somewhere. It’s not really that hard.[/QUOTE]
One system for all. No need for conversion.
[QUOTE=ombugge;187698]One system for all. No need for conversion.[/QUOTE]
I guess all that old iron just goes away? Any competent engineer should have no issue moving between systems.
[QUOTE=Emrobu;187690]A steel rule is just an instrument to collect information. A pressure gauge is just an instrument to collect information. A thermometer is just an instrument to collect information. A multi-meter is just an instrument to collect information. All of these instruments to collect information are available in metric. But not a sextant. Another one is a chronometer: not available in metric. Why is that? It’s because it’s not easy to divide circles into tenths. Even in mathematics, we use degrees and radians. I know, let’s take our star fixes in radians, that’ll be much better. Maybe we should talk about this over coffee. Meet me in the mess at pi/2 hours.[/QUOTE]
The Metric Compass is real and 400 degr. circle exists, or did: http://compassmuseum.com/diverstext/divisions.htm#GON
More up to date: http://www.suunto.com/nb-NO/Products/Compasses/Suunto-A-30/Suunto-A-30-NH-Metric-Compass/
In SI the circle has 360 degrees and the clock have 24 hrs/day. Both is divided in 60 minute, which is divided in 60 sec.
Aside from using AM/PM there isn’t much difference. What is the argument about??
[QUOTE=Rafterman;187700]I guess all that old iron just goes away? Any competent engineer should have no issue moving between systems.[/QUOTE]
I don’t think anybody believes the world, or that old iron, will come to a complete stop because less than 5% of the world’s population gets left behind in Imperial days.
It is not a problem for others, unless they have to deal with it in some form or fashion.
[QUOTE=Emrobu;187692]1852. A perfectly good metric number <sarcasm>
But what if it means something? A code. When did Napoleon become emperor of the French? When did the French make the first air-ship voyage? When was the Birkenhead Drill first used? When was the 4-coulor theorem conjectured? When was Admiral Yamamoto born? What about Alice, from Alice in Wonderland?? 1852.
WAKE UP SHEEPLE. The French invented the metric system, and now, every time you measure out another nautical mile, know that you are actually paying homage to Emperor Napoleon and all that he stands for.[/QUOTE]
Napoleon cancelled the Metric System during his rule. (See the time line in post # 36)
BTW Napoleon died in 1821 at St. Helena.
How does it make sense to come here everyday and tell us we are doing everything wrong? Fuck the metric system it’s just another tool the new world order is using to try and subjugate us with. We need to make measurements great again!
[QUOTE=ombugge;187703]I don’t think anybody believes the world, or that old iron, will come to a complete stop because less than 5% of the world’s population gets left behind in Imperial days. [/QUOTE]
No one said “The world will grind to a halt” Don’t be a dumbass. I’m saying standard parts, tools, and pipe will still be ordered and used even if the U.S. made the switch to SI.
[QUOTE=ombugge;187703]It is not a problem for others, unless they have to deal with it in some form or fashion.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ombugge;187689]My oh my, are we getting touchy??
I thought my question made it clear that I only asked for confirmation on something I believed to be a fact.
Yes I could have looked it up and I did follow your advise after your post. I did look at Quora, but the articles I could access and the comment you referred to gave a variety of reasons why the US Military is partly metric.
I don’t think it is anti-American to point out that there are two sets of maps in use in the US. That there have been accidents from use of wrong maps/conversions while exercising in the US is not a secret, nor is it unknown that this happen in actual live action in foreign countries, with civilian casualties at times, unfortunately. It is a fact, not something that is made up to spite you, or other Americans.
Since your post I also posted a link to other accidents that has been caused by conversion mistakes that could/would have been avoided if there was only ONE system. That some of late ones of those happened to be American mistakes is for the obvious reason that you are the only major country using a system other than SI.
Could some or all these mishaps have been avoided? Yes of course, if there was no need for conversion there would have been no conversion errors.
How does it make sense to maintain an archaic and impractical system just because “it is what we are used to”?
Does it make sense to have to carry two sets of tools to do repairs on a ship/boat, or have two sets of tools in your garage/workshop at home?
Has anybody calculated how much this silliness cost the American economy every year??
I’m not talking about from mistakes and additional work alone, but in trade, or loss of trade because your products are not accepted in foreign countries. Yes it is possible to produce two versions of everything, but is that rational?
Maybe a surprise to many, but America was once among the leaders in developing the Metric System, which ended up in the modern day SI. The American Dollar was the first metric currency in the world and Thomas Jefferson proposed the Metric System as the standard system of measurement for US in 1790. Maybe it’s time to implement his proposal?
If anybody is in doubt, here is the timeline for the SI system in the world and in the USA by the US Metric Association: http://boomeria.org/chemlectures/metrichistory.html
Now I’m going to be accused of being anti-American and a stupid Norwegian that meddle in US affairs again.
OK, I can live with that.[/QUOTE]
One mans touchy is another mans vigilance. Some one has to keep an eye on you!
I am hoping you are not knee-jerk anti-American and you have said you are not in the past but every once in a while you seem to phrase a comment in such a way as to accuse or imply nefarious intent of Americans or American institutions. Perhaps this too is just a conversion error… Norweglish.
Are you really saying now the point of your post was to let us know there are two systems in use in the US? That seems like you are back peddling but no, pointing out there are two systems I use in the US is not in itself anti-American but I think we were all aware of that fact already not to mention the 30 plus posts before your speculation about “targeting errors”.
That the conversion from one system of units to another has caused all manner of incidents and accidents perhaps even fatalities I will not doubt but you have have not presented any [B][U]facts[/U][/B] about targeting errors due to conversion of units in a military situation specifically mentioning the US. You have made an [B][U]assertion[/U][/B] that it is so but not provided the fact. (By the way I am not asking you for any and anyway that was not necessarily the point of this thread as far as I could tell).
You (and I for that matter) can wonder why the US has not converted up to now all we want but I do not think that will hasten the day that it comes to pass. In the meantime nearly every trip I am faced with conversion issues but there are plenty of tools available to do so with ease and accuracy. Last time I looked in ABS SVR they are now showing all numerical requirements in both systems. So for example if you are checking a pipe system test pressure, look up the value in the rules and use the number that matches the system units on your gage. Can’t speak about USCG regs as have not had to use those in a while.
Look I agree with about half of your post above. I wish you would have just posted that in place of the earlier post. It is more in keeping with the thread. I suppose we will just agree and disagree on this one. Oh, and I never said you were stupid, don’t know you well enough to have an opinion. I think you just enjoy poking sticks. That’s fine.
[QUOTE=KPChief;187710]
Look I agree with about half of your post above. I wish you would have just posted that in place of the earlier post. It is more in keeping with the thread. I suppose we will just agree and disagree on this one. Oh, and I never said you were stupid, don’t know you well enough to have an opinion. I think you just enjoy poking sticks. That’s fine.[/QUOTE]
Shit you got me figured out. In these lean time we all have to have something to occupy our time.
If I provoke some comments in your class, that is a bonus.
PS> I came across something about targeting mistake due to conversion, or lack of it, but not able to find it again right now. (It may have been Home Guard??)
PPS> My problem may be Singlish, not Norweglish.
[QUOTE=Rafterman;187709]No one said “The world will grind to a halt” Don’t be a dumbass. I’m saying standard parts, tools, and pipe will still be ordered and used even if the U.S. made the switch to SI.[/QUOTE]
Yes agree, until all that “old iron” and machinery that require it is still running commercially. Thereafter there will be a need for small supply for veteran cars, boats etc. (Maybe hand crafted and VERY expensive)
This is the case in Europe, where the metric system has been in use the longest.
[QUOTE=ombugge;187704]Napoleon cancelled the Metric System during his rule. (See the time line in post # 36)
BTW Napoleon died in 1821 at St. Helena.[/QUOTE]
Not that one. The other Napoleon. The nephew. The one with the dashing Buffalo Bill Cody facial hair. Louis Napoleon Bonaparte III.
[QUOTE=Emrobu;187713]Not that one. The other Napoleon. The nephew. The one with the dashing Buffalo Bill Cody facial hair. Louis Napoleon Bonaparte III.[/QUOTE]
Oh that Napoleon, why didn’t you say so? Or was it to test if anybody would fact check 1852 events?
[QUOTE=KPChief;187710]
You (and I for that matter) can wonder why the US has not converted up to now all we want but I do not think that will hasten the day that it comes to pass. In the meantime nearly every trip I am faced with conversion issues but there are plenty of tools available to do so with ease and accuracy. Last time I looked in ABS SVR they are now showing all numerical requirements in both systems. So for example if you are checking a pipe system test pressure, look up the value in the rules and use the number that matches the system units on your gage. Can’t speak about USCG regs as have not had to use those in a while.
[/QUOTE]
You’ve likely done some sea time on foreign built ships, It’s been 20+ years since I’ve been on a U.S. built ship. Obviously having to use SI units is not an issue, if it were we wouldn’t be qualified to sail even at the most junior officer level.
If faced with a simple conversion problem the coefficient or a table, program whatever can be found that can solve the conversion, however I’ve found that digging a little deeper when problem solving or trouble shooting (if time permits) sometimes pays off in the long run in knowledge gained.
I thought the connection between millibars and pascals was sufficiently interesting to post, if not, what’s the harm?
Same here 20 or more. Built in Canada, Japan, Denmark, Korea and the US. Had to switch back and forth a few times. And now use both systems on same ship depending on ship system.
If faced with a simple conversion problem the coefficient or a table, program whatever can be found that can solve the conversion, however I’ve found that digging a little deeper when problem solving or trouble shooting (if time permits) sometimes pays off in the long run in knowledge gained.
Hard to argue with digging deeper. Most troubleshooting I do does not require me to perform instantaneous conversions in my head. Consideration of the system of measurement and what instruments are in use is a box on a mental flow chart for sure to make sure we are all discussing the same numbers and what they are telling us relative to normal or rated or allowable.
Here I diverge from your topic myself but one of the biggest changes over my years has been the ability to trend readings in real time. To assemble custom trends on the fly and observe whether in deg C or F or psi or bar and to really use this information to understand what is happening in a system, a machine or even a tank. Excuse the diversion. Then again a recording barometer would be analogous no? The original trending system perhaps?
I thought the connection between millibars and pascals was sufficiently interesting to post, if not, what’s the harm?
No harm at all, you must be misreading my objection. I’m happy your experience relating the readings lead to a deeper understanding for you and in fact those are the moments of insight that make this job fun even after 40 years. That’s what I found interesting. It wasn’t in the marine engineering section and being familiar with the concept you noted, I had no intention of contributing at all. It just seemed to take a weird turn from your original intent to pros/cons of SI vs US customary, how the US is backwards for maintaining an “archaic” system of measurement, etc, etc. for the umpteenth time. That I did not find so interesting but to each their own. For me working with Pascals is a daily task for a European designed/built HVAC system. Think low pressures like static pressures of fans and across filters. My trusty Fluke can switch between Pa and "H2O or CFM and M^3/Hr or even liters per second with the push of a button too. We get by just fine and by time the USA finally makes it official I’ll be gone.
Like some of the others have said its not like these units are not in use even on US flag ships. I think some people assume because we don’t use SI as official system we know nothing about it, are violently opposed to it or incapable of moving between the two systems. I haven’t sailed with anyone with that attitude. Of course you poke someone with a stick and its tribal city. Apparently I am not immune to that myself.
Q: Why do the Norwegians learn to speak English and not the far more spoken Mandarin?
A: Because English is more useful to more Norwegians in and around Norway.
Q: Why do Americans use the Imperial system of measurement?
A: Because the Imperial system is more useful to more Americans in and around the United States.
1852
There’s a round number
well said, my man.
[QUOTE=DeckApe;187719]Q: Why do the Norwegians learn to speak English and not the far more spoken Mandarin?
A: Because English is more useful to more Norwegians in and around Norway.
Q: Why do Americans use the Imperial system of measurement?
A: Because the Imperial system is more useful to more Americans in and around the United States.[/QUOTE]
I learned English so I could troll on American Internet forums 
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;187716]I thought the connection between millibars and pascals was sufficiently interesting to post, if not, what’s the harm?[/QUOTE]
It’s been a fun Thread, off topic but fun.
[QUOTE=DeckApe;187719]Q: Why do the Norwegians learn to speak English and not the far more spoken Mandarin?
A: Because English is more useful to more Norwegians in and around Norway.
Q: Why do Americans use the Imperial system of measurement?
A: Because the Imperial system is more useful to more Americans in and around the United States.[/QUOTE]
Q: Why doesn’t Americans (most of them) learn any foreign language(s)?
A: Because the rest of the world is learning English to benefit from our great and superior way of life.
Q: Why doesn’t Americans use the same system of measures as the rest of the world?
A: Because it is so difficult to understand all those funny foreign things.
Those damn foreigners has to learn OUR system if they want to benefit from our superior technology.