Submarine and cruiser of off the east coast… as fast as I heard about it they went hush hush. Anyone else have any info on this incident?
Just the basics http://gcaptain.com/nuclear-submarine-rammed-navy/
We went and got MONTPELIER last night. NO visible rudder above the waterline. Made for a LONG sea detail up to KBAY. CO was still CO when I left the base early afternoon.
Heads will roll! C Captain will rant about the incompetence of Navy Officers. Its pointy stick time gents. time for a cocktail and some popcorn!
[QUOTE=seadog6608;85723]Heads will roll! C Captain will rant about the incompetence of Navy Officers. Its pointy stick time gents. time for a cocktail and some popcorn![/QUOTE]
FUCK IT! They’re Navee, what do you expect?
For a good laugh, read the story of how the USS ENTERPRISE had an up close and personal experience with Bishop Rock in 1985
God, I wish there were Bull Halsey’s still in this world! Now there was a US Navy Admiral who knew how to use a pointed stick!
[QUOTE=Jolly Tar;85679]We went and got MONTPELIER last night. NO visible rudder above the waterline. Made for a LONG sea detail up to KBAY. CO was still CO when I left the base early afternoon.[/QUOTE]
Any pics? Off the record off course. mailto:tips@gcaptain.com
So apparently, the sub surfaced just 200 yards in front of the tico, which ordered a full stop, still crashing into the sub. These subs seem to be in a lot of accidents, surfacing and cutting fishing vessels in half, and another recent incident in the suez.
Bull Halsey killed hundreds of sailors and destroyed about a dozen ships right before the end of WWII by disregarding a weather forecast and sailing straight into a known typhoon. This is why he was forcibly retired instead if court martialled. Is that who you want running the Navy, a guy who will not take responsibility for his actions?
Bull Halsey killed hundreds of sailors and destroyed about a dozen ships right before the end of WWII by disregarding a weather forecast and sailing straight into a known typhoon. This is why he was forcibly retired instead if court martialled. Is that who you want running the Navy, a guy who will not take responsibility for his actions?
You’re right that he had responsibility for the fleet getting hit so hard by the hurricane in late '44 and then another in '45 but to say “forcibly retired instead of court martialled” is a stretch. Nimitz himself decided that there were failures in command but did not recommend Halsey be either tried or cashiered. A bigger failure of Halsey was to take his fast battleships with him to chase Ozawa’s carrier decoy force off of Cape Engano and allowed Kurita’s force into the sea off of Samar. As the message from Nimitz read “Where is, repeat, where is Task Force Thirty Four?” If Kurita’s battleships did get into the transports off the Leyte beaches then Halsey’s head would have rolled. Halsey knew he fucked up and the US got lucky there. He retired at the end of the war because he was old and had his fight…there was no place for a Bull Halsey after the Japanese surrendered just like there would have been no place for a Patton after Germany was defeated. They had to leave the field.
So here’s the question…even though flawed, was Halsey a shitty Fleet Admiral? I say no, he was an effective leader who got men to follow him and to fight. There is no combat leader who is without some blood on his hands. Halsey had a bit more than many of the other senior carrier admirals in the Pacific like Spruance, Mitscher or Fletcher but he did embody the spirit of leadership in war and for that he will always be the second name one recalls when remembering the USN’s WWII Pacific campaign right after Chester Nimitz.
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[QUOTE=DPjohn;85777]So apparently, the sub surfaced just 200 yards in front of the tico, which ordered a full stop, still crashing into the sub. These subs seem to be in a lot of accidents, surfacing and cutting fishing vessels in half, and another recent incident in the suez.[/QUOTE]
and the fucking TICONDEROGA didn’t know there was a sub 200 yards ahead of it! WHAT THE FUCK DO THEY HAVE $75M SONARS ON THERE FOR?
I had the same question? What is the sonar for if not to avoid things of this nature. BUT It may also indicate some sort of sonar cloaking or stealth technology employed by the sub. I hope that’s why the sonar did not alert the crew, or they were asleep at the controls. I was a Marine on the USS Kearsarge in 97’ and we were docking in port in Roda, Spain (i think). We were manning the rails when we pulled up along side a supply vessel that was docked , all of the sudden boom we slid right into her side to side. Wrecked 50% of the catwalks on the starboard side of the Kearsarge… BIG wtf. It’s a little fuzzy but lots of bells and whistles and sailors running around doing shit; we just went below and put on our civies and waited on the libo call.
[QUOTE=c.captain;85791]and the fucking TICONDEROGA didn’t know there was a sub 200 yards ahead of it! WHAT THE FUCK DO THEY HAVE $75M SONARS ON THERE FOR?[/QUOTE]
Bull Halsey, who you admire, has made worse mistakes than this tico and sub collision.
My best guess based on the article is that the sub is at fault. I guarantee the tico knew it was there, and maneuvers in close proximity are not uncommon. What is impossible to know is the next action of another vessel, which for some reason came up to periscope depth and caused a collision.
Coming to PD is the most dangerous of the routine evolutions conducted by a Submarine and you can see why. When Submarines and Surface Ships are conducting exercises together, there is suppose to be a water management plan established that excludes certain areas of water to both vessels so this mutual interference will be avoided. Obviously, one of them was where they weren’t allowed to be.
Hey, defense contractor’s kids need braces too you know.
The Navy was practicing the tried and true ram-a-sub trick from WWII. The’re bringing back old tactics.
C-Captain,
400 men and 12 ship’s in combat is a lot different than 400 men, 12 ship’s and storm avoidance. Would you have been happy if your son or daughter was killed because somebody did not heed a weather report?
You are missing my point, I totally agree with u, in his day and that conflict he was a GREAT Admiral. But he was retired before VJ Day. That in and of itself shows something was going on besides the storm. The storm was the last straw. Patton was a great General too with the exception of pushing for the Sherman tank before the war instead of something heavier and getting hundreds of American tankers maimed or killed. In wartime leaders like this are what we need, hence the term, “Break glass in case of war.” Unfortunately those days are long gone and the powers that be won’t accept leaders like that anymore unless there is total war.
The environment now in the military, with exception of combat, is JSEA’s, risk assessments and the like. Bottom line in this case and all training evolutions nowadays and in today’s NAVY is somebody’s head is going to roll…
It must have been quite a view for the guy on the scope as he spun it around and was looking up at a CG bow slicing thru the water CBDR. All criticism aside, as the saying goes in the ship driving business. “your only as good as your last trip”. Fortunetely no one was killed. Im not a submariner but I know enough to say they are not as dumb as some on this forum would think. Sometimes bad things happen.
[QUOTE=BMCSRetired;85875]C-Captain,
400 men and 12 ship’s in combat is a lot different than 400 men, 12 ship’s and storm avoidance. Would you have been happy if your son or daughter was killed because somebody did not heed a weather report?
You are missing my point, I totally agree with u, in his day and that conflict he was a GREAT Admiral. But he was retired before VJ Day. That in and of itself shows something was going on besides the storm. The storm was the last straw. Patton was a great General too with the exception of pushing for the Sherman tank before the war instead of something heavier and getting hundreds of American tankers maimed or killed. In wartime leaders like this are what we need, hence the term, “Break glass in case of war.” Unfortunately those days are long gone and the powers that be won’t accept leaders like that anymore unless there is total war.
The environment now in the military, with exception of combat, is JSEA’s, risk assessments and the like. Bottom line in this case and all training evolutions nowadays and in today’s NAVY is somebody’s head is going to roll…[/QUOTE]
Sorry but fact check error on William Halsey’s retirement. Is was in 1947
What did happen was this and you are correct to say that it is not to Halsey’s credit
While conducting operations off the Philippines, the Third Fleet remained on station rather than breaking up and running from the storm. This led to a loss of men, ships and aircraft. A Navy court of inquiry was convened on board the USS Cascade at the Naval base at Ulithi. Admiral Nimitz, CINCPAC, was in attendance at the court. Forty-three-year-old Captain Herbert K. Gates was the Judge Advocate for the court. The inquiry found that though Halsey had committed an error of judgement in sailing the Third Fleet into the heart of the typhoon, it stopped short of unambiguously recommending sanction.
In January 1945, Halsey passed command of the Third Fleet to Admiral Spruance (whereupon its designation changed to “Fifth Fleet”). Halsey resumed command in late-May 1945. In early June 1945 Halsey again sailed the fleet into the path of a typhoon, and while ships sustained crippling damage, none were lost on this occasion. However six lives were lost, and 75 planes were destroyed, with 70 more badly damaged. A second Navy court of inquiry was convened. This time the court suggested that Halsey be reassigned, but Admiral Nimitz recommended otherwise due to Halsey’s prior service to the Navy. Halsey remained in command of Third Fleet until the cessation of hostilities.
The historical record shows clearly that Bull Halsey was not a cautious admiral and that lack of caution has stained a remarkable career. If my son died in Halsey’s Typhoon I would loathe the man for his lack of caution but mind you we were at war and not peace. Look at all the other monumental blunders of the USN in WWII! Pearl Harbor, U-Boats slaughtering 500 merchant ships right off America’s Atlantic seaboard, Wake Island, Savo Island, the 1st Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, the landings on Tarawa, the loss of important naval ship after ship to Japanese subs (Yorktown, Wasp, Liscome Bay, Pensacola), the Battle off of Samar and many others. Tens of thousands of men died for failure of others! ALL were avoidable but no heads ever rolled except for Kimmell and Short who were unfairly cashiered imo. There has always been a culture of protect your own in the US military and today it still resides deeply within the military establishment. Halsey was part of that system. He probably should have been removed from command of the Third Fleet after his blunders off the Phillipines but then again, King should have been court martialed after the U-Boat slaughter from Jan to June 1942. King personally prevented convoys from being used even though the British were downright begging for them to be formed even if they didn’t have escorts. Ernest King was a bigger ASSHOLE that Halsey ever was and cost many more lives and loss. There is the FUCKING prick who should have swung for his crimes!
I never said he was callous. He was like everyone else, he made mistakes that cost lives. Everyone at that level makes mistakes but are very rarely held accountable, that is my other point.
This is why I have very few heroes left in my case. One died the day before yesterday, SGM Basil Plumley, USAR(Retired) there was a leader.
Anyway, we got bigger problems, a national election and no leaders, that is the real shame.
“He who controls the past, controls the future. He who controls the present, controls the past.” George Orwell - 1984
Indeed sir…a true leader of men and one of a breed this Nation should honor with the highest of tributes! One of the “Greatest Generation”!
Part of the job of a military trainer entails an unprecedented amount of research. Research never consists of just a specific subject but it also involves historical events and the study of key leaders. I do not know of any military trainer who hasn’t come across the name of Command Sergeant Major Basil L. Plumley–one of our nation’s most treasured enlisted military men.
Beyond achieving the second highest enlisted rank any service member can achieve, which is more than impressive, there is something much greater about CSM Plumley’s call of duty – it comes from the stories that followed him long after his retirement.
Stories of CSM Plumley were easy to find, especially after 2002 when his strength of character was revealed in the movie “We Were Soldiers.” Actor Sam Elliot played the role of the infamous non-commissioned officer, Command Sergeant Major Plumley.
As a military man, records reveal incredible heroism displayed by the enlisted legend–far beyond what the movie revealed. Few realize that he was a three time recipient of the US Army’s Combat Infantry Badge—something only a couple hundred Americans were ever awarded. He earned such award through his willingness to serve America in three wars—World War II, Korea, and Vietnam.
He also earned a chest plate of awards and decorations which could be seen as he wore his Class A uniform. The Silver Star, Bronze Star, Purple Heart, twenty-seven awards and decorations in all, none of which comes from a career simply sitting back in garrison. You have to venture off to war to be awarded the types of accommodations that CSM Plumley earned.
Joe Galloway, the notorious wartime correspondent, also a key leading figure in “We Were Soldiers,” has written numerous accounts reflecting CSM Plumley’s character. The excerpt below is just one of many showing how brave and demanding CSM Plumley truly was:
“The sergeant major bent at the waist and shouted over the incredible din of battle----‘You can’t take no pictures laying down there on the ground, Sonny.’ I thought to myself he’s right. I also thought fleetingly that we might all die here in this place—and if I am going to die I would just as soon take mine standing up beside a man like this. Like a fool, I got up. I followed the sergeant major over to the makeshift aid station where Doc Carrera and Sgt. Tommie Keeton were tending the wounded. Plumley hollered at them: Gentlemen, prepare to defend yourselves! As he pulled out his .45 pistol and jacked a round into the chamber.”
The Command Sergeant Major was ferocious. During the incident described by Galloway, and while the majority of the men were armed with M-16 assault rifles, Plumley pulled out an old .45 pistol. Some would call this insanity but for “Old Iron Jaws,” it was a motivational display of pure confidence.
We shouldn’t think for a second though that Vietnam was necessarily where the senior enlisted man was truly seasoned. He fought in the Battle of D-Day and that is where many believe he witnessed his first call to action, but they would be wrong.
Historical accounts show that Basil Plumley participated in military operations dating back to 1943 during the Sicily Campaign—surely a frightening experience for any eighteen or nineteen year old.
Few know whether CSM Plumley ever truly feared the enemy but what we do know is the fact that he welcomed the fight. According to Guardianofvalor.com, he operated in more than twenty different military operations. Of note, this was all fulfilled through his willingness to volunteer—he was never drafted.
CSM Plumley was America’s Soldier, the kind who watched the world around him turn into chaos. He was the kind who heard the call for battle and laced his boots tightly to trek into danger. Whether he agreed or not with policy mattered little, his men were going to be sent off into harm’s way and he simply could never leave them behind by staying in the rear.
It’s difficult to teach anyone such ideology of love, passion, and courage. It’s something you cannot teach in a classroom. It’s all about doing—and by doing, others observe. It is the student’s observation to lead from the front that serves as the greatest of lessons–and leading in the front is exactly what CSM Plumley did time and again.
No, I never had the honor or the privilege to observe CSM Plumley in action. In fact, I never personally knew the man. But reading so much about him, I feel like I have known him for a very long time. His heroism, patriotism, and love for what he did has become a part of me. I believe it has become a part of many—in fact, I know it is a part of many.
I have been honored to observe the heroic actions of many of today’s warriors. America is filled with warriors willing to take up arms and rally to the battle cry. They come in multiple forms and from multiple walks of life. Some serve in our military, others our intelligence community, many in the civilian government, and equally, many are private contractors.
For every American warrior still voluntarily willing to sacrifice everything for this great nation, there is a piece of Command Sergeant Major Basil Plumley in us. We do our best to motivate the troops, we bend over backward to pick up a fallen brother, and we cherish the fruits of this great nation. I believe that history tells us that is exactly what CSM Plumley wanted us to become–fearless leaders.
Read more: Why CSM Basil L. Plumley meant so much to me and so many others
[B]NOW DON’T OUR PRECIOUS KP AND ANNAPOLIS MIDSHIPPY’S GRABBING THEIR GODDAMNED CROTCHES IN SOME STOOPID VIDEO PARODY OF A LOAD OF POP CULTURE DIARRHEA MAKE YOU WANT TO FUCKING EXPLODE IN OUTRAGE!
FUCKING GANGNAM STYLE MY ASS! [/B]
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