Identical to 46 CFR 12.603(a).
Same as with the ones being temporarily changed, Congress did. So where did the new (temporary) numbers come from? Can you divide by 2 (or multiply by one-half)?
So a guy can get ASD with 12 months of sea service and an approved course ,
Or with 18 months of seas service.
Are there any approved courses for ASD? How long are they?
Yes there are Approved Courses and duration for the ASD seems to be 5 days. They are listed on the NMC website.
You need to look closely at the approval of those courses. I have not had time to check them all, but most, if not all, are approved for the AS-D assessments only, not to meet the training/service option. I think that the ones approved for the service alternative are comprehensive (multi-year) programs for OICNW.
As I noted I have not been able to check all AS-D courses, so there may be some for the service option. But I think they are few, if any.
The requirements for approval of ātrainingā (not a course) for the service option is specified in NVIC 03-14, see the first row of Enclosure (3). Youāll note it is not a short ācourseā itās a program.
Again great points and guidance.
The individual mariner will need to do their own research regarding the difference between an approved course and/or assessments only when using the Approved Course List on NMC website. Included in the reaserch will be reading NVIC 14-14 and possibly doing a comparison of assessments.
Approvals like Maritime Institute or Maritime Professional Training are two possible vendors with an AS-D course which providing a list of assessments covered. In some case the approval statement has identified prerequisite requirements.
By taking either course, what is satisfied when providing the course certificate to the USCG. Can the mariner expect an AI letter or what will appear on the MMC?
I wonder when is that point where an average mariner become skilled in reading all the NDAA, FR, CFRās, NVICās, Policy Guidance, Marine Safety Manual etc, that apply to their individual career situation.
It would seem like Piney Point would be an excellent venue for a āprogramā with 12 months of Seatime that leads to AB unlimited and ASD.
Instead of their current 12 month program that leads to āSpecially Trainedā OS.
Iād think a couple of the other good quality schools would also come up with such a program.
Actually, the academies should consider offering AB / ASD programs, perhaps as a two year A.S. program that could be optionally extended to four years for a B.S. and 3rd Mate.
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The academy 3rd Mate/OICNW programs all include AS-D. Same for the Mate 500/1600 and OICNW programs at Maine and SUNY and the several non academy āwork boatā programs for Mate 500/1600 and OICNW. I am not sure about Piney Point and donāt have time to research right now. The gist of my previous post was the required training is not a short course.
Addendum: Piney Point has an AS-D program.
My apologies. I know Congress comes up with the numbers. However, I assume the laws are drafted with some input from the USCG and to meet international standards?
Do you know how they came up with 1080ā¦ 1080 is (was/normally) the same required days as 3rd mate, correct?
I may be disparaging A.Bs here a bit no offense is meant. Just never seemed right that a QMED was so much less time than an AB. The disparagement was meant to emphasize that the more technical knowledge job required less sea time to get endorsed.
I donāt know why the requirements differed. Iād assume it might be in part from feedback from the industry.
Not interested in a discussion about this but oilers are not typically used in fire teams to make entry for example.
I value both ABās and QMEDS were all in the same boat after all.
The firefighting training required for both is the same. I have seen a fairly wide segment of the industry. Almost always QMEDS are assigned to ādress outā for entry.
Iām interested in how the laws came about. These requirements are from well before our time. I welcome discussion from anyone who can see a good operational reason QMEDS including electricians should be so much less time than an AB.
Iām pretty sure if electricians can manage it after 180 days ABs can manage it after 540 days.
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You are correct, congress actually doesnāt come up with anything that isnāt proposed by industry or government. USCG is the agency that negotiated these numbers.
Could be. That still leaves industry feedback.
The other task was that as helmsman. Donāt know the regs but at times only an AB, not an OS, was allowed to be helmsman. Some serious incidents have had involved errors on the wheel.
Not always. A lot comes from the Committee on the Marine Transportation System (CMTS).
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Just because someone has an AB card, that does not mean that he is actually able to steer. Reliable autopilots and smaller crews have deprived them of the opportunity to practice.
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Interesting learned something today.
(((Robert Kagan has entered the chat)))
Itās a probability thing, just trying to improve the odds.
Lack of interest is the main culprit, along with a grossly overestimated assessment of their abilities. As a hawsepiper I have been astounded and dismayed at the number of persons who hold an endorsement as an Able Seaman/Seafarer who simply cannot steer.
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The ability to steer, and passing a serious steering assessment should be a prerequisite to becoming an AB or an officer.
Another benefit of small boat training is learning to steer. Rowing and sailing are good places to start.