CG Approves use of Electronic Charts


#21

You have the link to the “cliff notes”. I am at the RTCM site looking at the $60 checkout for 10900.5.


#22

[QUOTE=NYBoatman;178923]I keep them electronically also. I download the entire book at the beginning of the year, then download the corrections weekly. So much easier then correcting the books.[/QUOTE]

You might get burned in an audit for doing that because if you need to use it and go to look up a light you have no way of knowing if that light has any corrections.

They update the complete book every week, just download the updated light list weekly.


#23

I do the download every week when I’m at work. Had a couple audits for ism & sire & gotten good feedback. Told to write in front of book about them being on flash drive.


#24

I emailed the CG from the NVIC and got this response:

“Currently, the best way to know if a manufacturer meets the RTCM standard is to inquire of the manufacturer. To validate your system with the standard, you will have to acquire the RTCM 109 standard. More information may be found on the RTCM webpage regarding its latest 109 standard. However, at this point, we do not know of a system that meets the RTCM standard.”


#25

Until Rosepoint’s Coastal Explorer (with largest US market share) meets the standard, this NAVIC has no practical application. The ball is in Rosepoint’s court to get their ECS approved.


#26

That about sums it up 100%. I hope someone at Rosepoint is reading this. gCaptain is the only place to conveniently acquire the aggregate opinion of the domestic maritime industry in one place at one time. If you make a product (like Coastal Explorer) that’s marketed to the maritime industry you’d have to be crazy not to read this forum.

If anyone gets up the gumption to write to Rosepoint about the RTCM standards make sure to mention that they should be keeping an eye on here to keep up with trends.


#27

When I download the light list corrections I get the whole book updated minus the index (first 42 pages i believe). I dont re-download the index. With the coast pilot I download the whole book every week. Havent got burned yet lol. Not saying it cant happen tho.


#28

[QUOTE=NYBoatman;179178]When I download the light list corrections I get the whole book updated minus the index (first 42 pages i believe). I dont re-download the index. With the coast pilot I download the whole book every week. Havent got burned yet lol. Not saying it cant happen tho.[/QUOTE]

That’s the way I was saying to do it. You aren’t downloading the corrections, you’re downloading the corrected Light List. (They also publish just the weekly corrections, which is why I’m making a distinction.)


#29

Here was their response to my inquiry:

"On February 5, the U.S. Coast Guard published a policy letter, NVIC 01-16, which provides guidance for the commercial maritime industry regarding the use of official electronic charts instead of paper charts to meet carriage requirements. What does this mean to marine operators? This doesn’t impact operators today because, other than an ECDIS, there isn’t a system currently available from any manufacturer that would allow operators to take advantage of this NVIC and eliminate the need for paper charts.

Rose Point has been closely following this USCG policy process, but we were surprised by the timing of this release. We expected mariners would be able to use their existing computer systems to meet the new requirements, but that is not allowed under this NVIC. Rose Point ECS customers and others that want to invest in operating without paper charts will be required to purchase new specialty hardware.

The good news for Rose Point ECS customers is that the USCG has provided a path for mariners to substitute traditional paper charts with modern day electronic charts. Rose Point is looking into hardware options that will allow us to provide a complete solution. It is our intention to offer a version of Rose Point ECS that meets the NVIC requirements as soon as possible. We are working with the USCG to get further clarification and we will continue to keep our customers informed of new information and the availability of new products that meet the requirements."


#30

I like the irony that at the beginning of 2016 the USCG says you can have ECDIS and the IMO says it causes so much trouble that the Captain can now turn it off for a voyage if he thinks the crew are not competent enough to use it. ( assuming there is paper on board)
The IMO are also re looking at a common interface as that was a complete Cluster* as there was almost no standards so if you can use one you might not be able to use the other. Hence the type approval.
I always wondered where type approval for DP went??


#31

[QUOTE=powerabout;179242]I like the irony that at the beginning of 2016 the USCG says you can have ECDIS and the IMO says it causes so much trouble that the Captain can now turn it off for a voyage if he thinks the crew are not competent enough to use it. ( assuming there is paper on board)
The IMO are also re looking at a common interface as that was a complete Cluster* as there was almost no standards so if you can use one you might not be able to use the other. Hence the type approval.
I always wondered where type approval for DP went??[/QUOTE]

US tug companies are in a financial squeeze in a declining economy after an oil patch collapse, with reduce federal spending on projects, and are experiencing a significant decline in freight volume — as are all forms of transportation. Owners are NOT going to spend any money on new ECS equipment. Period.

Until and unless Rosepoint, Nobeltec and other popular programs with no special equipment are USCG approved, all of this is meaningless.


#32

That’s impossible to avoid new hardware because you need redundant sensors.


#33

IMO has not made paperless mandatory just 1 ecdis, certainly for offshore over 3000T
https://mcanet.mcga.gov.uk/public/c4/solasv/regulations/regulation19.htm
What did the USCG do?


#34

Hey USCG, rather than all of this nonsense why not streamline your LNM’S?

Nothing like correcting a dozen charts to add MRASS to some ATON’s, then the next week tell me to go back and add a note about MRASS to the same charts. And nothing like pulling a chart to correct a ATON that isn’t even on the fucking chart. Or correcting a tabulation for a channel changing an inch every 2 months.


#35

[QUOTE=tugsailor;179252]…Owners are NOT going to spend any money on new ECS equipment. Period.[/QUOTE]

They once said that about VHF radio. It didn’t turn out well for them.


#36

[QUOTE=jdcavo;179575]They once said that about VHF radio. It didn’t turn out well for them.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I remember that. I was there.

The advantages of an ECS are very significant. We now have a new generation of video game “navigators” that have never been underway without an ECS. Frankly, they would be lost without it.

Why not revise the NAVIC to approve the Rosepoint ECS, as is, for domestic use, until say 2020?

Many small tug companies already rely on Rosepoint.


#37

http://www.marineelectronics.com/news/inspectors-tough-ecdis-227838

If you want to run without paper charts, you have to use the ECDIS to the full extent of it’s purpose. Otherwise you’re just using an ECS. Laying down a track line, activating it for x-track error & ETA, and calling it good is not going to cut it with an auditor (if the CG ever asks you about it anyway)or it you have an incident. I think “route monitoring” is where a lot of people aren’t vigilant.


#38

80% of foreign vessels transiting and trading in American waters have already dumped paper charts, for better or worse.


#39

Why are the CG and the US maritime industry inventing the wheel all over again? Is it pride or just stupidity? How about just coping a system that works elsewhere?


#40

[QUOTE=Quimby;188906]http://www.marineelectronics.com/news/inspectors-tough-ecdis-227838

If you want to run without paper charts, you have to use the ECDIS to the full extent of it’s purpose. Otherwise you’re just using an ECS. Laying down a track line, activating it for x-track error & ETA, and calling it good is not going to cut it with an auditor (if the CG ever asks you about it anyway)or it you have an incident. I think “route monitoring” is where a lot of people aren’t vigilant.[/QUOTE]

Not sure but I think what you’re saying is true no matter what your backup is, paper or ECDIS At least in the non-Jones Act ships if the vessel is class approved for ECDIS then you have to have all your ducks in a row for port state control. Not to mention from a practical point of view of safe navigation.