Career Switch via Grad Program - Medical Concerns

Maritime Academy
1

Hello everyone, I am a prospective late 20s career switcher, and I know there are lots of posts about this type of thing, but I have some specific concerns regarding 2 things from an academy perspective: medical requirements for the unlimited tonnage deck license and then medical requirements for the Naval Reserve SSMP program.

I won’t go into much detail about my specific medical questions now - the issue is more-so around the risk of starting a graduate program but then ending up getting rejected from either the SSMP program or (worst case) the actual unlimited tonnage deck license itself due to a medical issue.

I am fully set on making this career transition for several reasons, but I currently have a (cushy and competitive) career where once I quit, there is virtually no going back. Therefore I cannot really risk quitting and then going through 6+ months of school/debt only to then find out I am ineligible for the license, since if that happens, I will be unable to go back to my well-paying career. As well, I would do just about anything to have as little debt as possible upon graduating, so being able to do the SSMP program with the recently increased age limit would be extremely helpful. However, I have some (what I at first thought were pretty minor) medical history concerns, that, after reading through some of the different documents I found for the USCG license medical requirements and Navy medical requirements, it seems impossible to know if I would be eligible or not, or mostly down to fate or simply luck and the mood of whichever doctor happens to do my evaluation, or possibly completely reliant on getting a “waiver” which seems unpredictable.

I have been contacting the academies that offer the grad programs, but the people who have responded have not been very helpful at all, so any insight from people who have been in a similar position would be appreciated! Does anyone know if there is any way I could do all of the medical evaluations prior to enrolling in a graduate program? It would be a pretty massive risk to start school only to find out eventually that I am ineligible for the license, or ineligible for SSMP and then have to go $64,000+ further into debt.

For more specifics on my concerns, I understand during your evaluations, your prescription history and medical records will be reviewed. I have basically 3 things I have ever had prescriptions for in my life. Two of them seem like I would be able to get around for the USCG license (epipen and then prescriptions for seborrheic dermatitis), but could possibly be an issue for the SSMP/Navy. The third is for migraines, which seems to be an instant disqualifier for the Navy and then is situational for the USCG license, leaning toward dealbreaker/disqualifier. The problem is that this issue hardly affects me in real life. I rarely get migraines, and they have never affected my vision or anything like that. 90% of the time if I get one, I notice it in advance and an NSAID takes care of it, and for the other 10% of really bad ones, I like having my prescription around since it instantly cures it (I use it twice a year maybe). Other than this I am very fit and have even done things like hiking the Continental Divide Trail for 5 months without needing the medication. So it seems pretty ridiculous to me that I would be instantly ineligible for the Navy just for simply having this prescription, yet capable of being isolated in remote wilderness 50+ miles from any civilization without needing it.

Basically, I have read stuff about not refilling your prescription for 2+ years to prove you are not really affected by migraines or X condition anymore, and I could absolutely do this for the migraine prescription. It has already been over a year since it was last filled (since I only take 2 a year), so I could just stop filling it. If I did this, and was able to prove I can function without it and whatnot, my concern is if I would ever be able to get the prescription back again in the future? It would just make life magnitudes easier to know I have the medication as backup for those very rare but annoying bad migraines. If I were able to pass the USCG and Navy medical evaluation, would I then be able to go to a doctor the next year and get the prescription back? Or would this just come up again at the next medical review (they happen every two years?) and then I would have to risk my license and Naval Reserve status every time? And I would not be able to just get the prescription from someone else (super illegal I presume) or even just bring my then expired prescription on the ship for hitches (guessing this is still illegal). Just seems like a tough situation, I don’t want to rely on hoping I could get a waiver for the SSMP/Navy which seems unlikely. But maybe for just the USCG license itself, I would have more hope of getting the prescription back?

Sorry for the lengthy question, and appreciate anyone who reads this and responds! The first part is more important - being able to know prior to enrollment if I am eligible medically for the license and ideally SSMP as well.

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I can’t speak about your case in detail, but download the USCG 719k medical form and see if there is anything in there that seems like your case may keep you from doing. Or make an appointment with your primary care Dr and go over it with them.

Lots of good info here.

https://www.dco.uscg.mil/nmc/medical_certificate/

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If you are already in a cushy and competitive career, that alone is enough to not make the switch. The grass IS NOT greener on the other side. I promise you.

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Thanks, I reviewed as many documents like this that I could find, and it still is pretty unclear if having a history of migraines would disqualify me or not

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I appreciate the concern, but have been miserable in my job ever since I started in the field. 9-5 life is not for me. I don’t want kids and the main goal I have in life is getting as much time off as possible every year to thru-hike long distance trails and slow travel. It is simply not possible in my career to do this. If I must sell my soul and devote my life to making some billionaire richer, I want to at least do it while having 6 months of uninterrupted time off every year. Life is too short to be miserable for 50 weeks of the year, dreaming of 10 days of vacation. I research this constantly and have mulled it over for hundreds of hours through the years and still cannot find a better realistic career that will let me achieve said goals. Consecutive months off at a time (in the summer as much as possible), fixed contracts/stability, and the ability to save enough money to hike in the months off as well as stash away enough to retire before 50. If you know of anything else that would help me achieve that, I’m all ears.

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Download the USCG Merchant Mariner Medical Manual and review the parts that relate to your condition and possibly review with your doctor. Ignore the advice from internet doctors.

Also, you will need to get the mariner medical certificate very soon after starting the program, so best not to wait on the above.

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Thanks, I read through every relevant section in this document before posting, and it still was not helpful enough to know what would happen. Also, I do not have a doctor. I travel around a lot and don’t have a dedicated doctor I see regularly. So I do not really know who I would consult to review this with. Since the document is so inconclusive, this is why I wanted to know if I could get all necessary medical approval before quitting my job, especially since it sounds like I would need a waiver to have a chance. Or, it seems like I could stretch the truth/downplay my condition (again, it rarely affects me), but then I don’t know if it would ever be possible to get the prescription back in the future. And there are different requirements for SSMP vs. the license it seems.

Basically that document says that migraines “may be deemed too
high-risk for medical certification.” It then says stuff that is non-progressive with low risk “may be
considered for a waiver, or may not require any waiver or limitation.” Risk seems to also be variable and can be influenced by “The safety sensitive nature of their merchant mariner credential;” (does this mean different positions like deck vs. engine would have different risk?). So again, everything is inconclusive one way or another.

I also don’t know what medical records and history there even would be to prove I do or do not have migraines. The document asks for objective testing but there is no objective testing to prove someone has migraines. I went to a neurologist when I was like 14 and they told me to continue using a high dose of ibuprofen until that stops working. One of my parents gets far worse migraines, and when I was like 25 or so a new medication came out (Nurtec) and I got a general doctor in my hometown to prescribe it just from saying my parent uses it and that I have been to a neurologist in the past who said I do have migraines. So now I have a prescription that is helpful for those rare bad migraines but I rarely use it.

Under the “non-progressive conditions” it says “Certification determinations will be made on a case-by-case basis” and that “Mariner applicants whose condition does not meet the standard may be approved for a medical waiver if objective medical evidence indicates that
the condition is sufficiently controlled to pose no significant risk to
maritime and public safety.”

So basically it seems like if I am fully transparent about my history of migraines and intent to renew the prescription that everything would end up being contingent on getting a waiver to pass. And this seems risky since that is completely out of my hands and up to the discretion of some higher-up reviewer. Maybe the person who ends up reviewing just has a blanket denial for any migraines, period?

I have also read elsewhere that the medical certification is basically a formality and as long as you have a pulse and “only tell them what they need to know” and stuff like that, that you will pass. So with this logic, I would totally consider downplaying the history of migraines, mentioning that they were worse in the past, I haven’t refilled the prescription in over a year, etc. If I cannot get medical clearance prior to enrolling in the program/quitting my job, I think this is what I would do since having my fate decided by obtaining a waiver seems quite risky. The only problem here is that it would be nice to be able to get back on the prescription again in the future, since it is very nice to have for the 1 or 2 times a year I have a bad migraine, and the prescription instantly cures it with no side effects.

Then again, SSMP medical evaluation seems like a whole different beast.

I know this is a lot and I seem anxious about this whole process but this is why I explained the situation with my existing career and no going back once I quit. It just seems very risky to base my entire career plan on the contingency that I may or may not be able to get a waiver for this when the time to get evaluated comes. Since if I end up being disqualified, I would have pretty much ruined my life.

9

Understood. Do what makes you happy.

If I were you I would get the 719k(physical) done and submit for an entry level MMC as an Ordinary seaman, wiper, food handler. It requires no seatime and you will have a pretty good idea if they will give you a hard time or not.

Bonus, you will already have an MMC so when you one day graduate and sit for license you will already be established in the CG database, just remember that your 719k will need to be renewed every 2 years.

As far as the Navy part, couldn’t tell ya.

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To be clear right from the start, I don’t advocate misrepresentation. But if you are worried about passing the Navy physical, go talk to a Navy recruiter. If you begin the process to enlist one of your steps is being cleared by a doctor at your local MEPS (military entrance processing station). Your recruiter would work any waivers you needed to get to be cleared for duty. Then, at that point, if you decide not to enlist, no harm no foul, and you have a clean physical/approved waivers with which to approach the SSMP down the road.

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Thanks, appreciate this suggestion, seems worth a shot to try this beforehand to know if I would be able to clear the physical or not. And hey, I still think you’re right that the grass is rarely greener on the other side, but also this career seems perfectly geared for the lifestyle I want so if its not right for me then I wonder who actually should be in this field at all.

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Thanks for this idea! I would not want to do anything too deceptive but this is definitely a realistic option. This makes me wonder if someone could do something similar with the Navy Reserves instead. If I did pass the physical, then I wonder if I could just actually join the Reserves preemptively, and if so, if that would translate into the SSMP program at the Academy.

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Make sure to use the form 719K and NOT 719K/E. The K/E form is only for entry level and gets a much lower level of scrutiny. I have heard some in the USCG say if you can fog a mirror you meet the entry level medical standard.

The 719K form is for all other credentials and gets the full medical review.

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Why does this conversation seem like it is with a some AI bot, or is it just me? All the conversational AI words are there. Who goes on and on as this ‘person’ is doing. I call bot pollution.

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I’m just really anxious about committing to this with the possibility of being denied due to dumb medical stuff that doesn’t affect me or my capabilities, so maybe I am ranting a little. I’m appreciative of anyone’s feedback but sorry if it comes off like a bot.

I guess maybe cynicism and sarcasm are the main forms of communication on this forum though, so I can rephrase… yeah man you are a genius who figured it out! Someone built a chatgpt bot to come to this random forum and make up some imaginary scenario about migraines and passing medical evaluations, scanned the entire medical handbook to cite the specific concerns, just to troll you. I am sooo glad we have you out here policing the internet to keep us all safe from annoying bots.

You do realize these LLMs are trained on actual human text too? So it’s not that unlikely that someone just naturally types in a similar manner to chatgpt. Sorry for worrying you and typing like a bot

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In the future, impersonating bots will be a thing. Much of internet discourse will eventually be performed by bots, because most internet discourse is mindless and inane.

Soon, bots will outnumber humans on things like forums. But since bots are fundamentally mindless and never tire of being inane they will dominate the conversation, and humans will increasingly be left out. They will feel compelled to copy the bots’ speech patterns and diction, in order to just blend in.

Since communication is the key to success, there will be high school and college level courses taught on how to communicate like a bot–courses likely taught by bots.

The career switch suggests itself (or it may be a bot suggesting it).

:robot:

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Hey I am aware of dead internet theory and not saying you’re wrong, but if this isn’t a good use for a forum like this then not sure what is and why any real humans come here if they think they are just talking to bots and have no way to prove it anyway.

Surely I can’t be the only person who has a fringe maybe-disqualifying condition that doesn’t actually affect them much in reality who wants to know how to find out if they can get a guarantee they will be cleared for both the license and Naval Reserves before ditching their existing career. Just rolling the dice for $64k/tossing my career and just hoping I’ll get waivers seems pretty reckless and dumb. Figured this forum was the best place to get guidance and answers.

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This is probably not the answer you want. The medical manual is not black and white because you have a POTENTIALLY disqualifying condition. Whether you would be found medically fit, or if you can get a waiver, is a SUBJECTIVE determination based on your own condition, its severity, and your management of it. If you do not have a regular physician who can credibly attest to the condition, how you have managed it, and your future prognosis, you have an uphill path in front of you. A walk in “ urgent care”;facility can do a current synopsis but may not be able to provide the history that might be required.

I would apply now, using the 719K form (not 719K/E);and see what might be required.

If you’re asking about the Navy’s requirements, this ain’t the place for that.

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Thank you, this makes sense and the irony is that I don’t have a regular physician or any history of neurologist visits or anything because it is truly a non-issue in my life. If I actually had serious migraine problems I would probably be regularly seeing a doctor about it.

But seems like you are right too that the only way to know will be to just go through with applying using the 719K form you are referring to, so thanks for the suggestion.

And I get it that this isn’t the place for Navy stuff, just figured there may be people in here who went through SSMP who would know what the process is like for that too.

(whenever I directly reply, it doesn’t seem to stay contained in the thread as a direct reply for some reason)

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A very good suggestion, but IIRC, and based on my personal experience, a commissioning physical is not the same as an enlistment physical.

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Also, since it is subjective, does this mean it would be subject to review every two years when getting cleared again? Or is it more like once you have a waiver, you are good to go? I ask because on reddit someone recommended just simply not disclosing anything since they don’t have access to your medical history (I mean I would consider it too since that is how little migraines affect me…). Or perhaps they may be referring to the 719K/E form whereas the 719K form might have a more comprehensive review of your history? Not saying I would definitely do that but it would be tempting. I just would like to have access to the backup prescription if possible though as well.