A Mate Pilot is actually a CG term. When you start in the towing industry and move up through the hawsepipe your first license is a Mate Steersman. The next license is a Mate-Pilot of Towing Vessels and the next is a Master of Towing Vessels. It’s right there in the CFR’s. It’s kind of how you supply boat guys call everybody Captain except the Master. I never could get used to that when I was at Hornbeck’s annual training with the OSV guys. Everybody there was a Capt…
[QUOTE=TugNtow;143971]A Mate Pilot is actually a CG term. When you start in the towing industry and move up through the hawsepipe your first license is a Mate Steersman. The next license is a Mate-Pilot of Towing Vessels and the next is a Master of Towing Vessels. It’s right there in the CFR’s. It’s kind of how you supply boat guys call everybody Captain except the Master. I never could get used to that when I was at Hornbeck’s annual training with the OSV guys. Everybody there was a Capt…[/QUOTE]
“Mate Pilot” is not a Coast Guard term. From NVIC 4-01:
[I]What is the difference between “mate” and “pilot” of towing vessels?
(1) There is none in practice. But, on the Western Rivers, the term “mate” has historically referred to the senior deckhand on a vessel while the term “pilot” has historically referred to the individual operating a riverboat.
(2) The license is endorsed “mate (pilot) of towing vessels” unless the applicant specifically requests one or the other.[/I]
[QUOTE=Signal Red;143943]Where I work we have one and soon to be more guys working the pilot watch 0001-0600,1200-1800 hr. They have mates license and work under the masters license of the Captain. They also make the exact pay as the Captain. I guess they are pilot-mates…[/QUOTE]
Sounds like the Master is really getting screwed by his union, and the company. Let me guess that the union is probably the IBU. The company sounds like maybe Shaver or Tidewater.
If it’s not a CG term why is it printed on my old license? Why is it in the CFRs? My point being all of these guys are berating the guy for using a term that’s printed on his ticket. Different sectors of the industry are just that, different. I can tell you this. 1st Capt and 2nd Capt are NOT CG terms. Show me that printed on a license.
[ATTACH]4030[/ATTACH]
This is also from NVIC 4-01 “d. Pilot of Towing Vessels means a qualified officer of towing vessels operating on inland routes. (This is an alternative term for mate of towing vessels).”
This is defining the term for people who don’t know what it means, not stating that its not a standard term…
All of this goes back to the steamboat days…
why they called officers pilots on riverboats is to me a mystery but it is as old as there has been paddlewheels.
now, we know that the wheels were so large to provide leverage the steering was truly manual with either rope or chain down and aft to the tiller arms. What I am trying to figure out is what the thing in the foreground is? Is it some early form of jog lever? This boat is one which has dynamos since you can see electrical switches behind the pilot.
Pilots are full of shit and tug drivers a bunch of assholes. But by nature, all assholes want to become full of shit. 
I’m pretty sure the term came into being because when you are steering at the helm your entire watch it is very similar to a bar pilot taking over a ship when she comes into restricted waters. You are “piloting the vessel”. With that train of thought anybody who is navigating in restricted waters is piloting the vessel. I’m not trying to argue the point that its an equivalent to a ship pilot or anything like that but just where the term comes from and why its in use. And the fact that it IS a recognized term by the Coast Guard. It hilarious how guys get on this site and get in pissing matches over the importance of the title their company/industry/license gives them. Who gives a shit. Answer the guys question or don’t but if you need a title to make you feel important or superior you’ve got issues. Buy some epaulets for your shoulders and call yourself Rear Admiral Wiper because you’re an ass. My confirmation of my accomplishments and skill come from a clean record of no incidents, a good paycheck, and from my family. The rest of it doesn’t matter… There is no reason to give guys shit for not being highly educated. There are different jobs out here for different people. One of the last industries where a guy who doesn’t have an education or never had the opportunity for higher education can work his way up and improve his situation. If we would encourage people to do just that instead of treating them like shit out country would be full of assholes that sit on a couch expecting a check. At least these guys are working for one and paying taxes like the rest of us.
This is priceless the mud boat people get up in arms about 1st-4th captains. Now the tug guys are up in arms because every one is misinterpreting pilot mate. Let me ask this is this another industry term like barge captain? I know pilot is mentioned in the CFR’s. Does one have to test for the specific route pilotage to get this endorsement?
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;144010]This is priceless the mud boat people get up in arms about 1st-4th captains. Now the tug guys are up in arms because every one is misinterpreting pilot mate. Let me ask this is this another industry term like barge captain? I know pilot is mentioned in the CFR’s. Does one have to test for the specific route pilotage to get this endorsement?[/QUOTE]
if the tug is under 1600tons and operating only inland, then a first class pilotage endorsement is not a requirement…only recency and number of trips on the waters traveled. Coastwise trade with an oil barge over 10000grt does however require it which I assume applies to all ATBs with barges over tonnage.
and don’t get me going on the 1st through 999th captain thing. Is this BULLSHIT going to fly on OSVs over 6000tons? As long are there is still not going to be a chief mate OSV license, then I fear it shall and the industry will continue to be a ridiculous joke because of it. At least 9000grt OSV seatime as second in command will still not qualify for an unlimited master’s ticket!
But the seatime does count. Guys are getting UL master and cheng on large OSV’s.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;144013]But the seatime does count. Guys are getting UL master and cheng on large OSV’s.[/QUOTE]
I thought we did this dance already and Jim Cavo already had confirmed that the USCG’s position was still that to get the master or chief UL you stilled needed 6months seatime in grade on an inspected subchapter D, H, I, R or U vessel which requires an unlimited tonnage chief mate or first assistant. You can still get an STCW endorsement but not an actual license.
Jim…for GOD’s sake man, help me out here!
[QUOTE=TugNtow;143971] It’s kind of how you supply boat guys call everybody Captain except the Master. I never could get used to that when I was at Hornbeck’s annual training with the OSV guys. Everybody there was a Capt…[/QUOTE]
Certainly not a part of the OSV BS I subscribe to you. Not on the boat, not on the VHF, not in emails, not at the office, and not on my resume.
Hey, didn’t I explain this a few days ago? And then Mr. Cavo said the same exact thing. How’s it even still up for debate?
Lol but everyone I know who works down there says they’re a “captain” at (hos, Eco etc) when in reality they’re 2nd mate at best.
Guess I should say I am a captain at “anonymous northeast tugboat company.”
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;144010]This is priceless the mud boat people get up in arms about 1st-4th captains. Now the tug guys are up in arms because every one is misinterpreting pilot mate. Let me ask this is this another industry term like barge captain? I know pilot is mentioned in the CFR’s. Does one have to test for the specific route pilotage to get this endorsement?[/QUOTE]
Damn it, Fraq! It’s Barge MASTER.
How dare you belittle me.
-
-
- Updated - - -
-
However this contradicts that https://www.uscg.mil/nmc/faq/pdfs/stcw_faqs_14_osv_endorsements.pdf
[QUOTE=c.captain;144014]I thought we did this dance already and Jim Cavo already had confirmed that the USCG’s position was still that to get the master or chief UL you stilled needed 6months seatime in grade on an inspected subchapter D, H, I, R or U vessel which requires an unlimited tonnage chief mate or first assistant. You can still get an STCW endorsement but not an actual license.
Jim…for GOD’s sake man, help me out here![/QUOTE]
yeah, we did already do this dance.
And WE lost.
As to the barge captain question the answer is no. You get a Tankerman PIC. The Barge Captain title is just a company/industry title given to the lead Tankerman usually on manned barges. As far as the Towing license I don’t think the guys on the boats that are the ones “up in arms”. It seems that the guys on here hear anything that sounds different and then tell the guy he’s an idiot for calling himself a “pilot”. I don’t think any of the guys on the tugs have any illusions that we are Bar Pilots or State pilots etc. I’ve worked on tugs for the last 12 years and even the guys I knew that had drawn pilotage for an area didn’t actually call themselves pilot unless they were aboard acting in that capacity. A lot of the tugboaters in the northeast sit for pilotage on the Delware, New York Harbor, Hudson River and other places they sail because the companies pay more if you get it and they will use you as a company pilot for guys who don’t have recency yet. Every tug that I have ever worked on the only titles that were used aboard were Captain (for the actual Master), Relief Master (guys holding the license and signed off by the company to actually sail as master, and Mate. That’s it. Not a lot of confusion with those as they fall in line with actual CG structure. In my mind there has always been on captain and every other officer is a mate. Until you sign into the log as the master you aren’t called Capt…