I though it was EPA regs, cant have diesel anymore…
Interesting!! Does EPA Rules apply to US Navy vessels?? (Never mind Oz Navy)
No. I’ve crewed on and operated various federal gov’t owned vessels and been boarded by agencies both civilian and federal. After realizing they are getting nowhere they often ask to see life jackets at which point I would kindly show them before they finally left. A couple of times I ordered local police officers to get off the boat after they had wasted enough of my time scratching their head trying to decide what to do next.
All military exempt from just about all IMO regulations but they do get fined for oil spills and when they crash into other vessels and reefs.
Was that in OZ?
Cant believe a state law enforcment employee would go near federal property?
“Honest Government” That has to be the pinnacle of oxymorons. It even beats military intelligence.
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No, in the US, and they often do when the federal boats are not clearly marked. It happens mostly with municipal PD’s who slap “police” decals on small boats and patrol local waters. It maybe anecdotal but they seem to have multiplied following 9/11 using the specter of terrorism as justification. In any case, they often use the badge to justify flexing their muscle without regard to the limits of their authority.
I’m not familiar with the OZ law enforcement climate but the US has no shortage of local agencies who love to wrap themselves in military garb and act tough.
Correction: my original post should have stipulated local and state, not federal.
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There was a brewing company in NZ that used a number of oxymorons in their advertising and they always finished with the sentence “yeh right.”
A billboard placed where it could be seen when George W visited NZ said “ US military intelligence, yeh right.”
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Any views on Virginia class vs Astute ?
I am strongly suspecting an off the shelf purchase.
Life much simpler in OZ, there are state police who do everything except Federal crimes and properties like airports/ports/Universities/maybe military places?
The local, meaning state police have sent Navy crew back to their boats at gun point when they have caused trouble in town when tied up to a public pier.
The water police are state police same guys.
Fisheries and Wildlife are the other guys with guns, dogs and boats that do national parks and fish control in fresh and salt.
There are pros and cons for both.
Virginia is larger, comes with the combat system we want, we generally prefer US weapons, but has much larger crew creating huge difficulties for Australia with extremely limited capacity to train the numbers required without us building/acquiring extra hulls now to train submariners at sea.
Astute is smaller but perfectly adequate, capable of the range of weapons we want.
The critical issue is whether we can impose an additional building requirement on either one. The Virginias are needed by the USN just as much as we do and there’s some doubt the US will trust us with their technology. They’ve never trusted anyone previously. Can we even lease a Los Angeles or is all this just talk?
The Brits also don’t have room in their building programme. The added complication is Australia wants to build them here.
Don’t hold your breath on this one. Unless we pull a rabbit out of the hat, we will inevitably have a massive capability gap for decades to come, right at the time we want to strengthen ourselves against the China threat.
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Perhaps an interim option is to deploy US boats to Australia by allowing ports to be more friendly
There are 18,000 separate police agencies in the USA.
If the far right has its way we will not only be the world’s largest police state but we will surpass the old USSR and the CCP in authoritarian rule as we currently hold the world record prison population with 25 percent of the world’s total number of prisoners.
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If by “deployed” you mean based, why would a nuke boat need to be based in Oz? They are not exactly range limited.
Establishing a US controlled base in Oz could be seen as an example of US military “imperialism” and provide no end of propaganda fodder.
US subs regularly visit our sub base in Fremantle and I can assure you they crews are welcomed and interact with our sailors. We send some sailors already to serve aboard US subs for familiarisation, but the sticking point is the nuclear plant. No foreigner has ever been inside the aft part. I’ve done full tours but came to the door to the machinery and told thus far but no further.
Longer deployments and fuller cooperation would always help, but such interim measures will never train the 2000 submariners we will eventually need.
The purpose of basing would be to allow the RAN to learn more fully about nuclear boats and perhaps send a pointed message to China. As I said above, the USN is ultra reluctant to share anything abut its nuclear technology. We shall see.
A prime example is that Australia wanted to reassure itself that visiting nuclear warships were capable of being safely berthed in our ports. It might be self evident that such ships are safe, but our boffins wanted to see with their own eyes to reassure nervous pollies and public that the ships could berth safely. Absolute no from the USN. Not playing that game. Consequently every USN aircraft carrier visiting has to anchor in a segregated area outside one of only two of our harbours and ferry 5500 liberty men ashore and back, replenish food etc the same way. The subs can berth at our sub base on a relatively isolated Garden Island because of its situation and security.
It would be sensitive, for sure, but the China threat has scared the bejesus out of our pollies who now understand we don’t have enough defence either in mass, firepower or depth to stand alone as is possible. China is our primary trading nation and it takes delight in belittling us, and our primary probable enemy. China has just realised it needs our coal to get through winter and has started allowing 5.5MT of coal to be unloaded from ships previously barred for many months. It greatly needs our iron ore and that has been exported without hindrance so far. So Australia won’t move in lockstep with USA on China. We’ll play up the middle somehow.
You’ll never get full US control of any base here. We already have dual control facilities such as the VLF radio station at NW Cape and Pine Gap intelligence base near Alice Springs. Both are now completely uncontroversial whereas they weren’t historically. Any nuclear subs would almost certainly be based at Garden Island. US Marines (about 1000 I think) regularly deploy for extended periods to our major base inland from Darwin to train in our conditions, but not yet permanently, so there’s good co-operation. Again, don’t hold your breath.
The USA sort of has a base in Singapore, i’m sure the same exists in other countries?
holy s**t, that must be more than the whole world added together
From yesterday’s WAPO:
…Record numbers of Chinese air force fighter jets and bombers conducting drills near Taiwan in recent days have escalated fears that Beijing is willing to use military brinkmanship to express displeasure with U.S. support of Taiwan, the self-governed island it claims as its own.
… People’s Liberation Army sent 148 warplanes into Taiwan’s air defense identification zone, shattering previous daily records …the missions stopped short of Taiwan’s airspace and may primarily be a way for China to boost nationalism at home while signaling resolve, but the dramatic scale of the sorties is itself dangerous and piles pressure on Taiwan’s air force, as well as U.S. efforts to strengthen the island’s defenses…
…The United States and Australia joined Taiwan to condemn the escalation, drawing an angry rebuttal from China… The drills also come as China faces a challenge from the new three-way defense pact known as AUKUS in which the United States and Britain will share nuclear submarine technology with Australia. Recent joint exercises between British and U.S. strike groups alongside Japanese defensive forces have also drawn Beijing’s ire…
…Xi Jinping has… urged the People’s Liberation Army toward its goal of being a modern fighting force — on par with the United States — by 2035…China’s Defense Ministry spokesman, said the United States was “playing with fire” after the House of Representatives passed the National Defense Authorization Act for the 2022 fiscal year with nonlegally binding promises to support Taiwan’s defense capabilities and inviting it to join the Rim of the Pacific military drills…Under Biden, the United States has reaffirmed a “rock-solid” commitment to protecting the island from military threat.
Even the Library of Congress has its own SWAT team!