While some classes are actually not antiquated, I would agree that the curriculum could use some updating but I think lack of funding and a dying merchant marine MAY have something to do with that.
I bet that there are more recent academy grads on ATBs than on deep sea ships.
Academies are out of date and out of touch with marine industry. They have very few staff with recent meaningful seagoing experience.
The academies teach the USCG exam. Thatâs why they teach about tackles and stick ships, but barely mention that new thing (from the 1960s), containers.
I literally took a full semester class about containers. And that was 15 years ago.
Well we had a stick ship for a training ship so itâs hard to really avoid thatâŚ
Definitely did not ignore containers, but only had 1 or 2 instructors who worked on containerships. Felt like most of the instructors were tanker people.
I also think itâs hard to squeeze in relevant industry topics when the exams they prepare you for seem very out of date.
1 Like
I re read your question. The answer is super simple. Good companies are not the question. Itâs the luck finding a Captain who will allow you to gain experience. The time (how long) is instantaneously⌠Itâs all up to YOU. Iâve had maritime alumni who are super awesome at playing video games in the galley. Iâve also had hawsepipers who come up and ask to drive. Itâs all up to you.
A previous Mass grad and I were discussing his âtowing experienceâ. He related his sum total towing experience was on a 36â lifeboat yanking a paint raft around Taylorâs Point. There is a deficiency at the academies regarding the current state of maritime employment, and what is a more appropriate job expectation. But⌠it would require the acknowledgement that ships ainât where itâs at. And delicate egos wonât allow such thought.
2 Likes
Well I got a gig with a great company. I guess itâs luck of the draw if I get a good Captain or not. If I do not get a captain who will train me and advance me, am I fucked? Do I ask for another boat? Or just ride it out and try to learn as much as possible?
I donât know what company youâre with, but I was on an offshore ATB out of school. I was on watch solo on day 1 after the captain talked to me for about an hour or two. Our company required unlimited licenses for all mates/engineers. Also worked without a toar for a while pinned in to the barge.
Well I think COVID kinda ruined any mate openings they could have had. I also know there are plenty academy kids who have been here a few years now and still are deckin
Itâs luck, timing, and aptitude to be short about it.
There are companies who will never let you near the wheelhouse for years, and companies who need a mate yesterday and will force your ass into the wheelhouse day 1, whether you are ready or not.
Canât go wrong there. Plan on giving at least a couple years. Doesnât look good on a resume to bounce around. Not to beat it to death, consider yourself lucky to have a job.
In a couple years after you have experience and if the industry is booming again, then consider going to greener pastures if you feel you arenât advancing fast enough.
1 Like
Then you work(ed) for a incompetent Master, at an unprofessional company and YOU broke the law. Look up the âMel Oliverâ case.
4 Likes
If you were the officer in charge of the watch and in the wheelhouse without another officer with a towing license or 500 GRT or more licensed and a completed TOAR, thatâs probably not allowed. Itâs still a towing vessel. Even tugs running âlight boatâ and harbor assist towing vessels require a towing vessel endorsement, or endorsement for 500 GRT or more and a completed TOAR.
4 Likes
Yeah, not sure how it is now, but when I worked for Crowley in the dark ages, they had different unions based on the region. SIU for the Gulf/East Coast. On the West Coast, they had several unions. San Francisco based boats had different unions than Seattle based boats.
Yep, that all happened. The tug was a little under 1600 GRT. I was alone on the bridge. as OICNW basically on my first watch out of the academy. Sometimes I had a lookout but thatâs about it. Company had a comprehensive sms/compliance system and shoreside staff so Iâd assume there was a MOU or something about it or itâs allowed if the barge is pinned in. The master had 40 years in the jones act petro tanker/atb business. So he had a good idea what he was doing.
1 Like
Why did you say that? âProbablyâ? When held to be accountable it is either legal or not.
The CG bent over for Crowleyâs ATB TOAR. Not sure if any other company got the breakâŚ
I donât think thatâs the issue. A âCrowley TOARâ is still a TOAR This guy DIDNT have ANY TOAR. And someone allowed him to stand a watch. (Although I seriously doubt it was actually a watch in pilot waters). Sometimes people exaggerate their accomplishments to justify their ego. I have seen many kids who equate standing a sea watch with actual boat handling. Huge difference. The sad thing is they donât understand the difference.
5 Likes
They all did. And mariners working on them even if the Company doesnât make the TOAR, see Enclosure (7) to NVIC 3-16.
Who ever said anything about pilot waters? In pilot waters we had the master and a fed/state pilot on the bridge according to company SMS.
I will answer for my experience in NY. At Reinauer minimum 5 years to get into the wheelhouse. Have guys gotten in faster? Yes but about 5 years is average. 3 captains have to sign off on you.
.When I was at Bouchard they didnt even hire mates from within. So if you went there as an AB you had to leave, get in the wheelhouse somewhere else and then get back to Bouchard.
After I left I heard that they started a mate training program, but I guess itâs a moot point now.
Every company handles promotion differently, personally I prefer the Reinauer method.
In general there is a very good reason to start on deck. Once you become an officer you may get a green deckhand. If you know what you are doing you can walk the guy through it. If you dont know how to do it yourself you have to call the office and tell them you cannot do the job.
2 Likes