Plus having to keep track of all those overtime and penalty time hours for all that extra pay.
This is what I’ve never understood about AMO. How do you know where you stand with regard to when you’ll get called? Is there transparency of any kind so one can see where they stand on “the list”? It always seemed to me the AMO system was ripe for nepotisim / under the table payments / good old boy network type stuff which is why I didn’t pursue that option. How are these issues avoided?
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Excellent point. We’ll have to work that into the next contract negotiation. I should be getting penalty time for taking the time to write down my penalty time.
On a serious note though, work rules are a huge part of quality of life that never gets brought up in these pay discussions. Getting 20%+ more than the AMO is great, but the guarantee that I’ll be compensated for any and all extra hours I work, as well as additional compensation for doing shitty jobs, getting called out in the middle of the night, etc. is just as important to me.
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When I sailed off the board this was always the way I viewed it as well. I had some pretty good times hunting those jobs down and extending my vacation in another town looking for a ship.
To each their own I guess, but this misguided idea of what it’s like shipping for the MM&P or MEBA is probably the most disingenuous one lobbed out there.
Maybe it’s time to split this thread…
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I started with the SIU and quickly left and went to Maine Maritime. The academies are a great place to go. You’ll have a degree which you can use in many related fields if you decide you don’t like to ship out. I graduated in 2014 with 104K in student loans. Since graduation, I joined the M.E.B.A., moved out of state, bought a house and have paid off 65K of my student loans. My point is that a 3rd A/E job through the M.E.B.A. pays about 97-125K depending on the contract. I’m sailing 2nd A/E and make more than that. Our benefits are awesome and so is the pension. Also, there is always enough money for me to put in my personal IRA. SIU is a long road to engineer. It’s up to you but do your own research to verify.
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Going to an academy is hard to beat.
Going to the two year AMO 3rd engineer program, if you can get in, is even better.
Hawespiping is becoming a thing of the past. Still possible, but a long, slow, difficult, and at the end expensive way to go.
The SIU program is a one year training program for a minimum wage job. While you do get a “B” book when you graduate, and you are placed in your first job, you are going to be looking a long time for the second job. The entry level positions (OS, Steward Assistant, and Wiper) are being eliminated. You will be competing against the professional OS, Wiper and SA’s for a limited pool of jobs.
On the union side, all resolutions are decided with a voice vote, and all elections are “unanimous” decisions. This makes it impossible to change the union management and change the other negative aspects of the SIU.
When you do get your hawsepipe time and wish to upgrade to Mate or Engineer, there is a regulatory ceiling to deter you from getting and sailing on that license. In the past couple of years, I have had 3 good candidates for promotion to 3rd engineer. They had their sea time and had passed their tests, but could not sail without the required classes. The expense and time requirements put them off for a couple of years.
Unless you belong to a union with training facilities or work for a company that assists in your advancement, Hawsepiping is difficult.
My oldest son, who went through SIU’s apprentice program is happy sailing as QMED. I told him to at least get his license before all the extra classes and various assessments were required but my advise fell on deaf ears. It is still possible but a lot harder and time consuming.
He gets paid very well for what he does. The contracts (pay) have improved considerably the last few years. My chief criticism of the SIU is that for many the improvement in benefits is mostly at the front end in way of pay. The medical and pension (particularly pension) lag.
Edit: Since I have mentioned the SIU’s Pension Plan here is a link to what those folks can expect. https://1xfclv1d7h1y4bllove05ypj-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/SPP-SPD-Final-03.2019-as-of-04.19.2019-1.pdf
This plan has sarcastically been referred to as a supplement to Social Security.
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Yup. Horrible.
I heard a lot of AMO horror stories in the oilfield, day man making more than the second mate etc. Chief engineer under 100k
You heard or do you know this was the case.
I’ve posted before, after my first 15 years sailing in the oilfield and some fishing industry, 3 major ups and downs in the cycle, I walked into the SIU hall in Houston in January '86. After all the union horror stories I heard, I was expecting to see child sacrifices in the hall. I walked out with a great equal time job with the top benefits on seagoing tugs under Inland contract. Top tier insurance and 2 for 1 pension. I retired 24 years later drawing almost 50% of my base pay at 56. I put in a little extra time each year as the operation needed. We worked as a team and negotiated contracts as a team every 3 years.
My only experience with AMO was during Desert Storm . I inquired about prospective jobs and was threatend to be put on the bottom of the list if I didn’t take the first job on the list. I laughed and passed. My nephew has been sailing on the LNG tankers under AMO contract and he is quite satisfied as he has advanced well.
Weigh your options…there are many and most limitations are self imposed…
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It’s better than what Federal employees get. The equivalent to the multiplier for “percentage credit” for Fed employees is 1%, 1.1% if you make it to age 62 with 20 or more years.
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Does the government do any matching in your tsp in addition to the pension?
Limited. Not sure of the exact amount.
AFAIKA, SIU has zero 401k matching. Maybe some companies have matching in their contract but I’m unaware of any.
Note the days of service required. To get the “normal” pension you need 7300 days. Some guys here have posted they get additional pension credit 2 for 1 (now limited to 365 days). My son works 4 months on/4 months off. He gets 15 for 30 vacation pay. In other words he will get pension credit for 300 days on a high year and 240 on the following low year. With that schedule it will take 27 years to get a 20 year pension. Since it took several years before he landed his current gig it will be more than that before he has 7300 days. Those numbers (300 day year followed by a 240 day year) lowers the average base earnings. Earnings from overtime pay is not included in any pension calculation.
People sometimes bitch about having to work a 12 hour day with a higher per diem (base) but no overtime. Truth be told that is what you want when it comes to pension calculations since only base wage numbers are used.
Fed TSP matching is 1 for 1 for the first 3%, then .50 for the next 2%, so if you contribute 5% they match 4%. Last I checked.
5% for 5% match, the first 1% is free regardless of your contribution