WOW! I need to call some contacts still with company and find out more about this. When I was a Chief, I was most of the time fortunate to have a competent 1st or at least someone who would call me if he was unsure of something.
I would never sail agreeing to a 3 A/E or 2 A/E sailing as a 1 A/E! What was the Chief thinking? Did he cave to pressure? Is he a temp? The master agreed to this? All the blame will fall on them as the company will not take responsibility for pressuring them to us a 3 A/E as a 1 A/E. No one should shoulder the responsibility of MSC’s manning problems. Never!
I missed where it said he holds a 1 A/E ticket. MSC has been waiving the requirements lately. My friend told me of one second mate who was assigned to the ship but when he arrived he was assigned CM for 2M pay and he did not have a CM license. MSC is voluntary compliance with USCG.
MSC is voluntary compliance with the USCG? Don’t think so. check again. 1st A/E is a COI billeted position. in that case he holds a license as a 1AE and filled the 1AE billet making the vessel in compliance with its COI.
Wasn’t the ship at the berth when this incident happened?
I was once told by a USCG inspector I could not question the competence of a mariner as the USCG had deemed that person fully competent with the issuance of a license. Now that they have lowered the standards and removed exams (combining the 3M/2M, 3AE/2AE, and CM/Master, 1AE/CE licenses, they weakened things further. And now they are looking to do who know what to help increase the number of mariners…
Just out of curiosity, are a MSC vessel classified as US Government Vessel, Naval Vessel, or Civilian Vessels in respect to IMO rules, regulations and guidelines?
Are the civilian crew required to be certified per STCW’10 when operating outside US territorial waters?
How does it work when there are a Naval Commander and a civilian Master on a MSC vessel at the same time. Who is legally responsible per International Maritime Law ?
(Especially in case of an incident involving foreign ships, or in foreign territorial waters)
They are naval vessels (USNS=United States Naval Vessel). The master, navigation and maintenance personnel are civmars. The navy component is there to man the CIC (Combat Information Center) and/or to serve the navy’s classified agenda. They voluntarily comply with CG regs but as government owned vessels, they are not bound by them.
As some some people explain it in simple terms, MSC is the Navy’s taxi driver.
Yes MSC is voluntary compliance with the USCG. They have the right to waive all USCG requirements if deemed necessary. You really think in a war MSC is going to ask the USCG a waiver to sail short a CM or 1 A/E?
Thanks for the info.
I thought someone posted something about "navy Commander and CINAR Master on the same ship.
Can’t remember who, or which one of the many threads about MSC, though.
Could be that the Navy Commander only “commanded” the Navy personnel and I misunderstood.
One of my old ships had a civilian Conmar Master and crew as well as 130 active duty including a Navy 0-6. There were a bunch of different navy and USMC groups on board including HQ group, Helo Det, security, boat group, intel, FAST team, medical snd civilian UAV operators. We swapped out the entire mildet every 3-4 months. For the first week or two we had to really tune up the mildet, but after that the entire operation usually ran like clockwork. The pilots were the biggest pain, entitled babies who thought the rules didn’t apply. The O-6 CO was usually very good as commodore of the JSOTF. I did get some really oddball stuff from one guy while running around other traffic at night in a 900ft ship at 24 knots.
I didn’t find there was any “new” information that needed to be covered to test for CM/Master, vs the 3rd Mate’s exam, I can’t imagine there was a big difference making mariners test every step of the way. I don’t think a hand full of multiple choice questions from a known question bank is a good gauge of for competency; especially when two of the tests to get to master are testing obsolete skills on charts that will no longer exist in just 7 months, and one, Stability, Where I don’t think you can do the math by hand if you wanted to anymore on most vessels. That’s 20% of the tests along the way that have no real bearing on workplace performance.
The hardest part about going from 3/M to master is Sea Time, not the tests. That’s where I disagree with the Coast Guard Inspector you spoke to, Perhaps Federally you could not question the competence of a mariner, but there is nothing to stop folks from professionally questioning their competence, It’s part of SMS where if serious safety concerns are not being addressed by chain of command, it should be brought up with the DPA.
