(https://player.vimeo.com/video/239050403?title=0&byline=0&portrait=0)
I know right? Work your whole career to get to captain and then find out it’s the wrong kind.
Found in MEBA halls across the country.
No. I don’t see any similarities to maritime. We don’t have a great job market like the airline industry with a balance of only two guys for every job.
We have at least 10 mariners for every job. Little one or two boat mom and pop tug companies that no one has ever heard of, and who don’t advertise, get 500 resumes a year.
That is hourly pay. You have to understand the contracts of how airline pilots are paid. In theory, they are “only paid” after push back. But they usually have guaranteed monthly minimum (maybe 70hrs?)
What isn’t spoken about is that it is 100% seniority based. If you are 747 captain and your airline goes bankrupt…you roll into the bottom of the list as a first officer at a “new” airline. But that’s how unions and seniority work…top guys would rather see hundreds laid off instead of take a 10% pay cut.
The irony is that the USCG requires more education and training for merchant marine officers than the FAA requires for pilots.
Personally, I don’t understand how the executives at the airlines haven’t taken on the pay figures of pilots. All they have to do is adjust their hiring standards slightly…there are plenty of qualified and licensed pilots out there to fill the two front seats at the airlines. And, flying an airplane isn’t that difficult.
When I’m sitting on a plane with 300 other people each paying $500 for a ticket, Totaling $150,000, I Feel a lot better knowing that a well paid senior pilot is in charge. When the average longshoremen makes $144,000 a year, $240,000 for an experienced 747 captain sounds very reasonable.
But where is our 2000 hour a year, $200,000?
Compared to what?
Flying a Cessna 150 isn’t very difficult. If you can walk and chew gum at the same time you can qualify for a private license in 40 hours. Flying a multi-engine airliner at 500 kts is a different story. Maybe like the difference between operating 20’ skiff and a ship.
Either way, the complexity of the machine is not the only factor. In the air, you don’t have the luxury of pulling the throttles back to idle and scratching your ass while you figure out the problem when things start to go south.
The similarities are that there are more qualified candidates than jobs in both industries and the companies that value their employees will retain the best.
As to your other point, getting 500 resumes a year is not uncommon in other industries. Jobs are disappearing everywhere and with increasing automation it’s not about to change.
My experience support your numbers. When I landed my last captain’s job In 2004, I was told I was selected out of two dozen applicants. When I retired in 2011, HR received over 150 applications.
Praise Jesus and pass the ammo.
Thousands of people fly airliners each and every day that have no innate talent whatsoever. The training, repetition, standardization, and procedures are what make airlines so safe. If Chesley Sullenberger (capt Sully) were not up front on USless Air flight 1549, I almost guarantee it would’ve been a horrific outcome. Sully is not your average pilot…he had talent and love.
So most airline pilots are talentless hacks who drifted into flying because they couldn’t think of an easier way to earn a paycheck and you “almost guarantee” that anyone but Sully would have crashed?!? All the world loves a hero but get this: He succeeded because he did exactly what he and all pilots are trained to do when ditching.
Every pilot I’ve ever known got into flying because they had a passion for it and couldn’t think of doing anything else.They worked their asses off to get to the airlines. It does take a type of talent as well as dedication. Those who don’t have both don’t survive the journey. To suggest otherwise is an insult.
Hmm, I don’t recall typing most pilots are “talentless hacks”. Please show me where I stated (or implied) this thought. There are many talented pilots…there are also many that do not posses such talent. Both pass the check rides. There are some with amazing skills at driving a car…and then there are millions of average ones that safely get from point A to B each day.
I haven’t researched all the details, but before the ditching, the book answer was probably to turn back to the airport.
The National Transportation Safety Board ruled that Sullenberger made the correct decision in landing on the river instead of attempting return to LaGuardia[41] because the normal procedures for engine loss are designed for cruising altitudes, not immediately after takeoff. Simulations showed that Flight 1549 could have barely made it back to LaGuardia had that maneuver begun immediately after the bird strike, but this scenario completely neglects the time needed to understand what had happened and assess the situation
Sully Sullenberger - Wikipedia
I’m glad every pilot you know has a passion. That means you hang around good pilots that truly love it. That doesn’t mean all pilots are in that category. Please don’t insert hidden meanings in my replies as I aim to be as literal as possible.
OK. Change “talentless hacks” to “people with no innate talent whatsoever” but it doesn’t make it any more or less condescending to the majority of those who make it to the left seat on a major airline. Comparing driving a car to flying a 787 is disingenuous.
Despite the public’s gullibility and appetite for hero worship, Sully is proof that the system works and he is the rule, not an exception.
I wouldn’t want to be a pilot. when i drive my car if my engine dies chances are i can get to the side of the road. on a boat, losing an engine is worse depending on location, if we are towing etc.
I am assuming when a plane loses an engine, especially if its a single prop, they are pretty much fucked. talent or no talent thats a heavy burden of responsibility and chances of survival aren’t that good I would think…but then again its not my bailiwick.
Just because it sounds condescending to you, doesn’t make it less true. The fact is that not every pilot is amazing. Some merely just good enough.
Sully was an F4 pilot. He started flying gliders as a teenager. He was teaching people to fly gliders. Before the Hudson landing, he had spent many years involved with safety organizations, teaching, refining procedures, etc. He didn’t punch in, fly a plane, and go home. He lived and breathed flying. It was his passion…and he was also talented at it. He wasn’t an average line pilot by any means.
An example of a below average “no innate talent” pilots: Air France that crashed into the Atlantic because the goon held back on the stick and stalled it. Colgan Air crash where the moron kept pulling back when the stall alarm went off and continued to pull through the stick pusher. What about the women pilots that forgot to put the gear up on takeoff and nearly ran out of fuel?
Thankfully there are many talented pilots out there. But to say they all are is being naive, at best.
But back to the maritime topic: as far as I can tell, unlimited officers on ships don’t get paid nearly what Airline Pilots get. Of course, there is no direct comparison for marine engineer…but I think deck officer and airplane pilot should be considered comparable professional occupations.
It’s nice that you admire Sully but military training and instructing doesn’t set him apart from his peers so it’s a moot point.
For someone who called me out because you “aim to be as literal as possible”, you’re not paying attention. I never said all. I said the majority. Clearly, that excludes isolated cases of suicidal french goons, morons who fight the stick shaker and women pilots who leave the gear down.
No there isn’t. Just as there is no direct comparison between aircraft pilots and ship masters but if you had to find one, it would be A&P mechanics.
Good idea.
Foss, Shaver, Harley, Sause bros & Army Corps of Engineers all have offices in PDX.
I agree that Tongue Point is a good option, especially because it’s mostly free and associated with Inland Boatman’s Union.
Another option might be the Workboat Academy in Seattle at MITAGS-PMI. It’s a 2 year apprenticeship program for a mate 1600t license.
The regional airlines and code-shares pay shite and that became very obvious when PBS Frontline ran an episode called “Flying Cheap,” which came out after the 2009 crash of a commuter turboprop near Clarence Center, NY. Everyone on board died along with at least one person in a home on the ground.
The pilots flying Colgan Air flight 3407 were making absolute peanuts, and enduring long commutes and long wait times at the airport. Many of these pilots lay out extra money for cramped, shared living quarters near the airport called crash pads. Eff that noise. I’ll take sailing any day.
Look up the episode. You should be able to stream it online.
And pass up on prestige of airline flying?