The only additional courses required for a national endorsement (license) as Mate 500 GRT are basic and advanced firefighting, and if he doesn’t have Apprentice Mate yet, he’s not grandfathered to the 2014 requirement for basic firefighting fir mate of towing vessels. The rest of the courses are for STCW and he doesn’t have to get STCW in order to get the Mate 500 GRT national endorsement (license).
That is pretty whack. Your statement is correct for Mate 500 GRT NC or Ocean. But for Mate 500 GRT Great Lakes and Inland, Radar Observer is also required per 46 cfr 11.430.
I should have qualified that the only additional courses needed are fire fighting. From the info provided, he probably needs radar observer with Mate 200. See 46 CFR 15.815(c ).
I don’t really think there should be one and there’s definitely no need in offshore towing. There’s no reason he can’t train to be a mate in a few hitches after getting a license, or maybe twice that long while still a deckhand before getting his license. Going the apprentice mate / steersman route he has to get 12 months of sea time AFTER getting his apprentice mate, no experienced tug boat deckhand that can be trained to be mate needs 12 months of training in the wheelhouse.
And most likely a 500 ton NC too.
You really think it would take him 12 months training in the wheelhouse?
Do you think you can really show proficiency in a couple of hitches in every item in the TOAR for someone who’s never held any license and never steered a boat? We move oil. Would you want a guy with a couple of hitches at the wheel moving oil that way? Then there’s getting his recency which takes time as well. I don’t think 240 days, which is the amount it would be if the boats are on 12 hour days, is unreasonable. I’m talking about a guy who can stand his own watch competently as the only guy in the wheelhouse. Some of these offshore tug and barge units are the size of small ships. A couple of hitches isn’t enough and I don’t know any academy guys who had the 3rd mate who’ve come out and only needed the 90 days and the TOAR be good enough for their own watch that quick either. Maybe a guy who’s steered on his license for years and is just changing over to a tug can learn that quickly but not a guy who is on his first issue of any license. I’ve done the TOAR and been steering tugs for a long time and I’m a DE and it takes a while to get a TOAR signed off correctly. If you’re pencil whipping the TOAR you’re setting a guy up for failure and possibly setting him up to spill oil because you said he was ready when he wasn’t.
Working on deck really isn’t the best path to the Tugboat wheelhouse.
Most deckhands, even good ones, do not have much wheelhouse potential.
Experience actually running a small boat and learning to handle a boat well (and to observe and use the elements) is more important.
Some experience working on tugboat decks is very helpful to prepare for the wheelhouse, but there is no substitute for actually being in the wheelhouse and practicing under the tutelage of a Master.
Merely “observing” has value, but it does not take a guy very far without actual practice.
It’s simple enough to put $2000 or $3000 worth of classes on a credit card. If a guy does not have credit, that’s a red flag.
If a guy cannot or will not spend a couple thousand dollars to move up, that his choice, even if it’s a bad one. But it’s also another red flag.
Again, we already have a glut of marginally qualified people with licenses. We need some barriers to entry to bring supply and demand back into balance.
And you only run with one mate? In that case I agree that it would take longer than a few hitches to be fully qualified since he has to be a completely proficient boat handler. I still think he should get the 500 ton so that as soon as he’s checked off he already has the license without HAVING to wait until the 12 months is up in order to get his MoT to be a mate. Honestly, I’m impressed your company will pay him extra and run him as a trainee and not insist he train in the wheelhouse while still working as a deckhand.
Capt Phoenix is correct.
The apprentice mate pathway is a waste of time.
The Mate 500, TOAR, and 30 days of observer time is much faster, and therefore much cheaper (much higher wages sooner).
Spending months doing a TOAR is also a waste of time and money.
TOAR can be done in one day at a few of the schools for a couple thousand dollars. Again, it’s much faster and cheaper with no bullshit.
I’m glad we have such good people to anonymously evaluate the character of crewmen you’ve never met before. I came here to ask Mr. Cavo about facts not get a character reference…
And @Capt_Phoenix it’s required that he run as an apprentice mate and be logged in as such in the logbook for his seatime. He won’t be the deckhand. He will be a dedicated trainee. You can’t fill two billets when you get an Apprentice Mate License. He can’t legally be the deckhand and also be the trainee. To me that is a good thing. I know that’s how it used to be because I started in this business when that was the norm but I think done that way you have a guy who is tired all the time from getting up on his off watch to train because he’s been painting such all day. I think the company through trial and error has seen the value in this as well. There’s more to being the mate, at this company anyway, than just steering. The trainee can learn all the paperwork that goes along with moving oil and general Managment of the boat with all of the other stuff we deal with like the VGP, Ballast reporting, safety inspections etc.
There is no requirement to legally be a “trainee”, just to acquire 12 months of sea time on a tug while holding apprentice mate. I’m glad your company does it that way though.
I don’t understand your argument. Half the time your saying there are better guys out there but then you turn around and say he should go to a school and get his TOAR signed off in a day? Do you want proficient qualified people or warm bodies with enough cash or credit to go to sea school and be handed the document? Seriously WTF? And on a 12 hour watch system it’s not 12 months/360 days it’s 8 months/240 days. Seems to me that you like to argue for the sake of arguing. I’m not advising the guy to not get a 500 ton license. I’m telling him he can get an apprentice mate license now and start training and get seatime. Since we all know that the 500 ton test is more difficult than the 200 ton he would need to study for that in order to pass it. That would take time and in that time someone else may take his spot. I’ve already explained that the training mate spit pays more. Once in that position he will be able to afford more classes.
Not having to be listed as a Trainee is me to me. That may have been a change because in the past that wasn’t so but I still think it’s a good idea.
From a financial and advancement perspective it makes sense for anyone to take advantage of the loopholes in the existing rules.
TOAR was a good concept, but it’s implementation under the existing rules is a worthless farce. Particularly, allowing the schools to grant it at the end of a one day (everyone passes) course.
The Apprentice Mate may have been a good concept too, but it has been circumvented by the easier, faster, and cheaper (considering higher earnings sooner) 500 ton route.
When a guy shows up with a license, The owner and Master should be able to rely on it as a true indication of sufficient competence.
Don’t worry, if I were writing the rules, it would be a lot more difficult than it is now to get Mate or Master of Towing. There would be an expensive and extensive “road test” with no more than a 50 percent pass rate.
I can agree with extensive, which is how we train our training mates, because by the time they are done we know they can hold their own watch because they have proven it, not just shown up with a license to prove it. It doesn’t need to be expensive though. Proving you have the money to do something doesn’t make a good boatman. The point of the hawespipe is to allow a path to the wheelhouse for people who can’t afford to go to school. Unless Bernie is going to pay for all of that too with his new plans that is an arbitrary measure that doesn’t prove competency.
As a hawespiper, I hate to say it, but the days of hawespiping are coming to a close.
The future belongs to academy grads, and the grads of other schools focused on smaller vessels.
I don’t think it has ever been a requirement that one was listed as a trainee as most companies don’t have official trainee positions.