# Adding an Oceans Endorsement to 1600 Ton Master NC

Has anyone already holding a 1600 Ton Master NC added Oceans recently? Am I correct that I would need to take two exams at the REC being Q124 Navigation General Oceans 70 questions and Q127 Navigation Problems 15 questions? I am assuming that the Nav problems are all math since there is no way to use a sextant in the exam room?

Thanks in advance for any help here.

You will get some good info from this thread found at the link below.

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/18268-2017-exam-rules-test-questions-nondisclosure-2.html

[B][U]Learn / Study some of this shit:[/U][/B]

1. Azimuth by Sun
2. Amplitude by Sun
3. Sun Rise/Set
4. Star Time Calculation
5. Long distance ETA
6. Fuel Conservation Calculations
7. Propeller Slip Calculations
8. Deviation Table Construction

Is there any of these subjects you would like to talk about?

I was under the impression itâ€™s mandatory to do a course now?

1. Ok I will start where does the sun set in the Equinox in March and September? Is that in both hemispheres?

2. Whatâ€™s is Bowditch?

3. What time is the sun the highest in the sky?

What is Bowditch?!?!
Dude â€¦ Youâ€™re fucked.

I think he is joking as he is not the the OP. God I hope so

[QUOTE=DeepSeaDiver;185641]You will get some good info from this thread found at the link below.

http://gcaptain.com/forum/professional-mariner-forum/18268-2017-exam-rules-test-questions-nondisclosure-2.html

[B][U]Learn / Study some of this shit:[/U][/B]

1. Azimuth by Sun
2. Amplitude by Sun
3. Sun Rise/Set
4. Star Time Calculation
5. Long distance ETA
6. Fuel Conservation Calculations
7. Propeller Slip Calculations
8. Deviation Table Construction

Is there any of these subjects you would like to talk about?[/QUOTE]

I donâ€™t remember those being used on the Celestial test. The first 4 are used, but but only in bits and pieces to get your final star fixes.

[QUOTE=Flyer69;185651]What is Bowditch?!?!
Dude â€¦ Youâ€™re fucked.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Sir. Bowditch Hint - Gyro error by amplitude? Gyro Best, Error West

What is declination?

1 Like

surely you have heard of declination?
Here, I will use it in a sentence for you:

"The declination of civilization, (and the Great American way of life),as we know it owes much to 8 years of an Obama presidency and the looming specter of another Democratic presidential disaster.

[QUOTE=Ctony;185648]I was under the impression itâ€™s mandatory to do a course now?[/QUOTE]

Itâ€™s not, and never has been. And for an original oceans endorsement or an unlimited license, there are no courses.

[QUOTE=Jemplayer;185667]1. Azimuth by Sun
2. Amplitude by Sun
3. Sun Rise/Set
4. Star Time Calculation
5. Long distance ETA
6. Fuel Conservation Calculations
7. Propeller Slip Calculations
8. Deviation Table Construction

I donâ€™t remember those being used on the Celestial test. The first 4 are used, but only in bits and pieces to get your final star fixes.[/QUOTE]

They could all be on the test, as stand alone problems.

Oh Gosh Flyer69 - I really do not want to go back and forth with you with this. I was hoping to make this thread a little educational for all of us. I still respect you, and your experience. Sounds like, you like Trump?

My question wasnâ€™t about what to study. I have always tested at the REC for everything except what requires a course (stcw, radar, etc) and I have all of the books I need to study with. I passed my first exam with Bowditch, the practice charts, Merchant Seamans Manual and a couple of other pubs. I am asking if anyone has added oceans to their license and that Iâ€™m correct that these are the correct modules. I would like to know in advance rather than apply to the CG and not know if they get it wrong. Itâ€™s happened to me in the past. I do know that you donâ€™t have to take a course to get an oceans endorsement and Iâ€™ll be damned if Iâ€™m gonna pay to sit in class for three weeks at MPT to learn something I can learn in my spare time on the boat. Basically Iâ€™m wondering if someone whoâ€™s done this recently can look at their test approval letter and tell me what modules were listed for the increase in scope. Iâ€™m not upgrading tonnage just increasing the scope of my license.

I just upgraded my 2/M unlimited in scope from NC to Oceanâ€™s and had to take modules 146 and 147. Butâ€¦those are probably different modules than the 1600 ton.

From the NMC Exam Guide of August 2014:

A mariner seeking an original national endorsement or raise of grade based on training or service started on or after March 24, 2014, will be examined under the requirements of the final rule published by the Coast Guard on December 24, 2013, (78 FR 77796). Those examinations are set forth in this guide.

A mariner seeking an original national endorsement or raise of grade based on training or service started before March 24, 2014, will be examined under the regulations and policy in effect before that date unless they have specifically requested to examine for their endorsement under the final rule published by the Coast Guard on December 24, 2013, (78 FR 77796). Mariners examining under the previous regulations and policy will be guided by the Guide for Administration of Merchant Marine Examinations (Deck & Engineering Guide) dated June 2011 (MCP-MA-NMC2-03(08)

So, if you use the OLD celestial nav increase in scope criteria, it is listed as modules 206XX, Nav Probs, 15 questions (80% required), and 207XX, Nav general, 20 questions (70% required). A cel nav course is not required BUT may be presented in lieu of the examination and/or assessments. This exam guide was put out in June 2011.

If you use the NEW criteria, the modules are as originally posted (Q124 and Q127).

I believe there may be a slight difference in the test subjects from one to the other based on the matrix/table in 46 CFR Table 1 to 11.910 in effect at the time of before and after the change. I also think there is a previous post in here somewhere by JCAVO which may give that info.

Edit: Check here for OLD and here for NEW.

[QUOTE=Decker;185676]From the NMC Exam Guide of August 2014:

A mariner seeking an original national endorsement or raise of grade based on training or service started on or after March 24, 2014, will be examined under the requirements of the final rule published by the Coast Guard on December 24, 2013, (78 FR 77796). Those examinations are set forth in this guide.

A mariner seeking an original national endorsement or raise of grade based on training or service started before March 24, 2014, will be examined under the regulations and policy in effect before that date unless they have specifically requested to examine for their endorsement under the final rule published by the Coast Guard on December 24, 2013, (78 FR 77796). Mariners examining under the previous regulations and policy will be guided by the Guide for Administration of Merchant Marine Examinations (Deck & Engineering Guide) dated June 2011 (MCP-MA-NMC2-03(08)

So, if you use the OLD celestial nav increase in scope criteria, it is listed as modules 206XX, Nav Probs, 15 questions (80% required), and 207XX, Nav general, 20 questions (70% required). A cel nav course is not required BUT may be presented in lieu of the examination and/or assessments. This exam guide was put out in June 2011.

If you use the NEW criteria, the modules are as originally posted (Q124 and Q127).

I believe there may be a slight difference in the test subjects from one to the other based on the matrix/table in 46 CFR Table 1 to 11.910 in effect at the time of before and after the change. I also think there is a previous post in here somewhere by JCAVO which may give that info.

Edit: Check here for OLD and here for NEW.[/QUOTE]

Good stuff Decker Thanks I will check out the links.

OK so to clarify because obviously I had my head up my ass, I can apply for increase in scope to oceans, get approved assuming I have the requirements, then take two modules at the REC.
I may self study for this then. For some reason I was under the impression it was like gmdss and there was no way around doing a course.

Correct, your rectoptic vision is now corrected 20-20. Or, others who donâ€™t like to test at the RECs can take a course and not have to test at the REC. I know Mid-Atlantic Maritime Academy has a course. There are probably others.

[QUOTE=leadsled;185673]My question wasnâ€™t about what to studyâ€¦ I am asking if anyone has added oceans to their license and that Iâ€™m correct that these are the correct modules. I would like to know in advance rather than apply to the CG and not know if they get it wrong. Itâ€™s happened to me in the past. â€¦ Basically Iâ€™m wondering if someone whoâ€™s done this recently can look at their test approval letter and tell me what modules were listed for the increase in scope. Iâ€™m not upgrading tonnage just increasing the scope of my license.[/QUOTE]

You could go and look it up yourself with the links above. You say they made a mistake with you in the past, so comparing to someone else doesnâ€™t really get you the correct answer, they might have made a mistake on the other guy. In the post above there are links to the old and the new exam guides, that will get you the right answer.

As noted, there are exams under the old regulations, and under the new. Until March 24, 2019, some mariners are still eligible to test under the old rules. If any of your qualifying sea service was before March 24, 2014, you can take either the old or new exam modules. They wonâ€™t be the same, there was stuff added to the new exams that wasnâ€™t on the old one. I believe the NMCâ€™s default is to the new format, unless you indicate you want the old, it appears you were given a letter citing the new modules (Modules starting with â€śQâ€ť are new).

• Updated - - -

[QUOTE=Hawespiper5;185674]I just upgraded my 2/M unlimited in scope from NC to Oceanâ€™s and had to take modules 146 and 147. Butâ€¦those are probably different modules than the 1600 ton.[/QUOTE]

Different endorsement, thus different examination with different modules. While the MATE 500/1600 exam is substantially similar to 3rd Mate and 2nd Mate, heâ€™s asking about MASTER 1600.

[QUOTE=Decker;185684]Correct, your rectoptic vision is now corrected 20-20. Or, others who donâ€™t like to test at the RECs can take a course and not have to test at the REC. I know Mid-Atlantic Maritime Academy has a course. There are probably others.[/QUOTE]

Generally the courses are two weeks long and expensive. Since Iâ€™ve had a taste of azimuth, amplitudes, sunrise/sunset, etc I may take a stab at self studying to avoid hemmoraging money.