Interested to hear best path to MOT?
Currently working as 2M and cut in pay to work up to MOT is not ideal.
Pay for TOAR Class then get hired or are companies hiring providing a path to TOAR/MOT?
My advice would be to just spend a little bit of that fat union 2nd Mate day rate your making now for the one day TOAR simulator course to get your TOAR before you start job hunting.
Next, the choices become a bit more difficult.
Do you go to a bigger and better company like: Foss, Crowley, Moran, McAllister, Reinhouer, etc. where it’s more difficult to get a job, and you may have to sail AB, and become a Tankerman, for a year or two before getting into the pilot house?
Or do you go to a smaller, bottom of the barrel, nonunion company, with older boats and lower pay, where you’ll become an “instant mate” after you get your 30 days of observer time (probably while getting paid to sail as an AB)?
My choice would be to go get any job at any company for whatever pay to get my 30 days of observer time, and move right into the pilot house as a mate. You could do this in between trips while you are still sailing as a deep sea union 2nd Mate. You’d be making extra money, not less.
I recommend avoiding oil. Get a job pushing gravel barges or dump scows where you can get a lot of hands on barge handling experience, and there is a high tolerance for hard landings and dents. Put in some time and get your Master of Towing license.
At this point, you can decide if you want to stay at smaller companies with lower pay and higher turnover and start sailing as Master, or if you want to go to a big company pushing oil and continue sailing as mate for another 5-10 years.
A good approach to consider would be to keep making one deep sea trip a year as a union 2nd Mate to keep your union status and advance your unlimited license, and sail on tugs the rest of the year. In a few years, you could be an unlimited Master, with significant experience on ships and significant experience sailing as Master on tugs. Try to also get ship assist tug experience. That would make you a credible candidate for a pilot association.
Except that this is against Union rules and if someone finds out that you’re Gaming the system it gets you booted.
If you’re in AMO you can get your TOAR there and then sail on any of the ATB’s that are always looking for Jr Mates. If you’re not, then save a little money, pay for your TOAR, and go get some experience anywhere that will hire you.
Not sailing union but OSV/z drive.
Not interested in upgrading to Unlimited Master Lic for a number of reasons.
1600/MOT more interesting and Ithought there may be companies offering a path to MOT rather than taking yet another expensive class to see what may be available.
We used to have a lot of deep sea union mates that were working on nonunion tugs as ABs or Mates to survive. It was against union rules back then too, but the union never gave a damn or did anything about it.
I have recently had MEBA 3AE, 2AE and 1AE engineers sailing Chief on tugs.
Over the years, I have known a few deep sea union mates and engineers that bought tugboats. It’s not against union rules to own and run a tugboat company.
If you want to leave sailing deep sea and go to tugs anyway, would it really matter if you got caught breaking union rules. Unless you are already vested in the pension, what could they really do to you, except expel you from the union?
If you are not happy sailing union deep sea, there isn’t much risk to doing whatever you want to.
The “expensive” $2000 (tax deductible) class is less than three days of pay, and it’s an instant TOAR.
Time is money. The $2000 class is generally much cheaper than screwing around for months in some tug company “training program” that barely exists and has a severe shortage of DE’s.
Is there any tug company that pays extra for being a DE?
Is there any tug company that pays extra for performing additional DE duties and being responsible for signing off on TOARs?
If I’m going to do TOARs, I’ll do it in a simulator and charge $2000 for it, or I’ll do it onboard and charge $2000 for it, but why in hell would anyone do it for free?
When a tug company is spending $4000 a day to crew a tug, and $4000 to $10,000 a day for fuel, but making good money and growing, why do they think their DEs should work for free?
However, if you want “free” company TOAR training, have at it.
Easy there Salty. I am just looking for information. I didn’t think QAs were required anymore, at least for osv/ship assessments they are not.
Seems there is a shortage and retention issue with all mariners and I thought there may be a tug company or two that was thinking outside the box on how to attract Mates to Masters and provide a path to Mate of Tow. Especially with boat handling experience. The pay has improved anyway.
$2,000 tax deductible if you are itemizing above the standard deduction of $16,100 for a single for 2026. My work boots and pants don’t add up to that.
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Is he buying and running a tug boat company?
If jobs are tight in the union, like right now for mates, yes it would matter. If I was looking for a job and someone got it over me while also sailing outside the union I’d for sure make a call to get him ripped off that ship and me put on. Otherwise what am I paying dues for if I can just reap the Benny’s and work somewhere else?
Points moot bc he sounds like he sails in the gulf.
Reinauer used to pay for their guys to upgrade, but I believe you had to pay your dues on deck for a while first. They were notoriously hard to get into back when I was looking but I’m not sure what they’re got going now. Could be worth firing off an email.
They aren’t, until they are. NMC sends out a memo every year extending the QA requirement. Regardless, the class is quicker and easier. There’s a place in Boston that friends of mine have done it at. Seems pretty painless.
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I know of at least one company where its a condition to being a captain.
Qualified assessor and designated examiner are two different things I believe. The qualified assessor specifically refers to signing off assessments for STCW like oicnw, oicew, etc…
The designated examiner title specifically refers to TOAR.
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The shortage seems to have subsided. Youre best bet is to either work your way up or go do a class and get a gig doing buoy to buoy. Try Centerline
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I did the 2M to Tug mate path. I was deep sea union but wanted something more steady and shorter hitches so personally paid for my TOAR class then did the 30 days. If you have a Tankerman there are definitely ATBs out there that would be easier to get hired possibly as AB Tankerman while you do your 30days then the bump up to mate. Just depends on what you’re looking for or comfortable not all guys enjoy the Tanking but it’ll help get your foot in the door
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