Did you send them any sea time letters with the tonnages of the barges that you were working with?
Just curious if they acknowledged that service as it’s laid out in the CFRs
I didn’t because I didn’t know about that CFR the last time I upgraded. I looked at them when I considered applying for ATBs. But since the NMC said the 540 I need must be on 1600 ton vessels it doesn’t make sense for me.
Hello Tugsailor, I am thinking about upgrading my 100 ton NC Masters and also a old geezer guy, will be 62 soon. Currently working at ECO on their crew boats which are coming in at 97GRT/416GT with a high HP rating 7240-9000 HP. Want to break in to the tug side but not sure what direction to take. Seems to me the 200 ton route might be my best option. Any insight would be appreciated don’t have much time left.
That’s probably not going to work. There’s no crossover from Mate 200. You can either go via Mate 500 or via Apprentice Mate (Steersman). Going by Mate 500 is probably fastest, you can probably get with sea time you already have. After that, you need at least 30 days of observation and training on a towing vessel and completing the TOAR.
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I think he is referring to the path from master less than 200grt to mate of towing vessels.
(f) Those holding any endorsement as a master of self-propelled vessels of any tonnage that is less than 200 GRT, except for the limited masters endorsements specified in §§ 11.429 and 11.456 of this subpart, may obtain an endorsement as mate (pilot) of towing vessels by meeting the following requirements:
(1) Providing proof of 36 months of service as a master under the authority of an endorsement described in this paragraph.
(2) Successfully completing the appropriate TOAR.
(3) Successfully completing the appropriate apprentice mate exam.
(4) Having a minimum of 30 days of training and observation on towing vessels for the route being assessed, except as noted in paragraph (b) of this section.
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Probably. I was going by memory and forgot about that one.
He posted that he’s running a crewboat that is 97GRT and 400something GT
Will the USCG use the GT and give him credit for that seatime toward AB unlimited and Third Mate?
Or will they say its under 100 GT and give him no credit for that seatime toward AB unlimited or Third Mate?
@patoloco I think @jdcavo gave you a better answer that I can. I rarely see anyone using the apprentice mate route.
Only if it was being crewed in accordance with the ITC tonnage and not the register tonnage.
I don’t see a difference in crewing.
The COI on a crewboat or under 100 ton tugboat typically calls for four men: Master, Mate, and two deckhands.
If the tug is over 100 GRT, but under 200 GRT, the COI will call for: Master, Mate, AB and OS.
A tug will often have a fifth man not called for on the COI, the unlicensed deckhand/ engineer (who probably has AB)
So does that mean, if one of the deckhands (or the engineer) happens to have AB, that the vessel is crewed as a 400 GRT vessel?
Even if international voyages ( for example San Diego to Ensenada) are authorized for an under 200 GRT tug, the COI probably only requires four men: Master, Mate, AB and OS . STCW probably won’t be required on the COI at all.
He won’t get credit for 400 GT if he was was Master under authority of a less than 100 GRT license. You can’t have it both ways.
The 100 GRT requirement is for AB-Limited, not AB-Unlimited [46 CFR 12.403(a)]
Thanks for the replies, just coming in from offshore. I’m looking at the CG website under check list, National Officer Endorsements (licensed) for Deck, and see National Mate 500/1600NC. Is this the fastest best route to go? Looks like I have all the STCW requirements and time for this license.
Hold on a sec…I know we’ve gone off the rails here, but am I interpreting this correctly, because this would be news to me.
I hold a 200 GRT NC license, with 1,080 or more days as master or mate on inspected vessels, if I test for (or take a class) for “Apprentice Mate” (towing vessels?), complete a TOAR, with 30 days training/observation, I can get “mate towing vessels” (I assume limited to 200 GRT).
Is that right?
Not that it matters, but I held (now expired, long ago) a 500 GRT Ocean Master with 1,600/3,000 ITC Mate license, but it just doesnt seem worth the effort to get that reinstated (full test).
The reg specifically says the time must be as master.
I’m pretty sure there would be no tonnage limit.
Ok, thanks. I don’t think I’ve got 1,080 as Master on inspected vessels, but might be getting close. As before, it would probably be quicker to reinstate the 500 Master, and then do “30 days and a TOAR” if the mood struck.
Apologies to @Juicy , we’ve really hijacked his thread.
Yes. Get the 500 or 1600 ton mate. Then all you need is:
A one day simulator assessment that everyone passes; to get a TOAR , and
20 (12 hour) days of “observer” time on a tug.
I wanted to follow up on this thread for future reference for anyone interested.
After the last couple months of back and forth with the NMC on reconsideration. They have issued me 3rd Mate 3000GRT Near Coastal with no further examination from 1600T Mate NC.
They allowed some of my ATB time to count however did not accept aggregate tonnage of any of my conventional tug and barge time. I’ve considered appealing because I believe that my tonnage limitation should be more in the 5000 or 6000GRT range but with how slow the process has been I’m not entirely sure the juice is worth the squeeze. I may already have an opportunity sailing on the 3000GRT and can eventually just upgrade to 2nd AGT with that time.
A couple takeaways I have from the process is that the evaluators at the NMC are not particularly knowledgeable about a lot of the ‘loopholes’ in the CFR’s that allow for some of this stuff and you likely will have to send them citations from the CFR and exam guides to get the assistance you need. I’ve never used any of the license consultant services but after this process I will probably go that route in the future.
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