Enough with the Norwegian S***


#21

Sorry. We were a bit busy being invaded by the Soviet Union. :wink:


#22

indeed…there’s a great movie about these events, also called The Winter War. If you guys had larger numbers (or had been sufficiently helped by your equally armed/equally determined neighbors), you would’ve been able to hold your ground. I certainly appreciate the guts shown by the Fins. (also appreciate that they paid back their loans to the US unlike most all of their neighbors).

The balls shown by the Fins during The Winter War just goes to show what can happen when an invading army shows up on the territory of an ARMED population and tries to impose their will. In your link, you’ll notice the death totals of 26k Fins and 127-168k Russians.

When the invading army comes upon an UNARMED populaiton and imposes (not tries) their will, you get this:


#23

The bugge’s constant multicultural/globalist/pan-Asian/Norge humble-brags and fake modesty thinly disguising smugness and what presents as a consuming inferiority complex have gone past tiresome and now consume nearly the entire forum.

It looks a lot like an illiterate coonass spit tobacco juice on his shoe 30 years ago and he just never got over it.

But gosh darnit, he wont stop till he “proves” his value judgements on myriad subjects are somehow true and correct! What a a noble little fellow.


#24

“Consuming Inferiority complex”??? I have been accused of having a “Superiority complex” multiple times only today and in this thread. Could you please make up your minds??

OK let’s make a deal; When you guys stop calling all foreign seafarers working on the GoM and elsewhere “inferior slave labourers from 3rd world countries”, or words to that effect, I’ll stop pointing out the obvious lack of preparedness for the modern day oil field requirements by American Owners and shipyards. How is that??


#25

I’ve heard your same rant from many of your countrymen for the last 20 years. Blah blah blah you guys are the best sailors with the best hardware and the best country that trains better than anywhere else. What we are talking about here is an US law pertaining to waters held in US Jurisdiction. This has nothing to do with US nationalism, rather, US laws that protected US sailors in US waters. But hey, give one of you guys any excuse to rant about how great Norwegians are and how stupid the US and it’s citizens are you’ll be sure to take it. You simply can not compare Norway to the US - apples to oranges so please stick to the topic and stay away from those you don’t know about.


#26

Wow - sorry for the rant everybody but for YEARS I have had to be polite to these guys and MAN did that feel good.


#27

my mind is made up and you have an overpowering superiority attitude

btw, if that really is you in your avatar then you are also old and look like a fat Smurf in your rubber pants


#28

free and open competition between American companies in the US market but we don’t open our borders up to allowing every foreign corporation free and open access to our markets just as Norway doesn’t. and don’t give me that any EU company can just come in and set up shop just like that there…they are restricted and you know it…SIR!

I don’t think I have ever wanted someone here to go away as badly as I wished you would right now


#29

And where are you getting your information about dated hardware in the GOM, work boat/drill ship/etc? That’s part of the problem with this down turn - there probably isn’t a drill ship out there working in the GOM that’s older than 5 years - everything older has been stacked. The work boats that I encountered out there have been about the same. The decline of the offshore business, and the GoM in particular, is geo-political and huge advances in shale technology here in the US. If anything, there were WAY too many new builds in the GoM.


#30

So the concensus is now Superiority, not Inferiority Complex. Much appreciated, I’ll rather be Superior than Inferior, which I have NEVER felt, no matter who I’m dealing with or where in the world I may be.

Yes that is me, dressed up to kill!! (Crabs that is) I’m not too self-conscious, or believe in hiding behind funny handles, or multiple avatars.

Why are you surprised I’m OLD??? I have mention, or at least hinted at my age many times.


#31

Free competition for American companies in foreign countries are not to your liking then??
That was one of the sticking point when negotiating the TPP. (America demanding special privileges)

PS> I hear that TPP MAY be revived, but being renamed “Trump Pacific Partnership” to get it more palatable for the President.:innocent:

As for the situation for Norway and it’s relations with the EU, it is quite complex. Although Norway is NOT a member of EU, or the Customs Union, it is a member of the EEA and the Schengen Agreement for free travel within Europe. (See chart below)
As such Norway must allow EU countries free access to its markets, incl. it’s job market for EU Citizen and for EU Companies to bid on tenders issued in Norway.
The only restrictions are on EU fishing fleet’s access to Norwegian fishing ground, other than as agree year by year. In return there are restrictions on Norwegian fish exports to EU countries

To clarify how Europe work, here is a map from The Economist showing which European countries belong to which multi-lateral organizations. (Other than UN and WTO etc.):

PS> Norway also have special concessions on Farm subsidies and the Liquor Monopoly and a few other minor areas.


#32

You really have no idea do you? The German army was far superior to that of the Dutch, in overwhelming numbers, armament and fanatism. The idea that it would be possible to stop this tsunami with some handguns and rifles, even machine guns is so ridiculous. Dream on…

The truth is they didnot even bother to fight us much but just leapfrogged our defense systems with their bombers. We fought them for four days in which they made little progress, hence for punishment the horrendous bombing with incendiary bombs of the inner city of Rotterdam and its civilian population, men, women and children. After that the game was over and we surrendered to avoid repeats on the cities of Amsterdam and The Hague with which they threatened.

As a result thousands were killed and the inner city was totally wiped with curious exception of the City Hall and of all things a good old Dutch wind mill. Just a couple of days ago on May 14 the yearly remembrance of the merciless Nazi bombardment was held.

Well, just a few remarks of another bloody foreigner, so pay no attention. Bring it on…


#33

You are right, there probably isn’t a Drill ship or Semi working in the deepwater GoM at the moment that is over 5 years old. They are also all foreign flag, built at foreign yards and fitted with foreign equipment to a VERY large extent. They ARE largely US owned and manned by US citizens, whoever.

As for the workboats built in the US the last few years there are some that is getting close to what is required to perform the more difficult tasks that the market demands, but not quite enough yet.
Even those are being fitted out with foreign machinery and equipment because there aren’t any US made eqv. GE is trying to rectify this though: http://www.offshoreenergytoday.com/ges-drive-technology-for-hornbeck-offshores-mpsvs/


#34

The Norwegians did fight the Germans with hunting guns or whatever they could lay hands on from 9. April to 10. June, 1940, before the Germans managed to occupy the entire country: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Campaign

They continued the fight during the occupation, with one of the most decisive actions of the war being the Rukan action that denied Hitler the possibility of developing Atomic Weapons.
In May 1945 the Norwegian Home Forces were able to disarm the Germans and take control, without a single Allied soldier being preset, except the Soviets who had cleared and occupied Finnmark in the High North. (They withdrew voluntarily when the war was over): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_resistance_movement

To believe that Norway could have fought off invasion by the Germans, (or by the British, if they had come first) even if they had had a well armed Army, Navy and Airforce in 1940 (which they did not) is ludicrous. Little Norway could no more defend themselves against a major military power then then they can now, That is why we are a member of NATO.


#35

Good grief who are you? The cheep steel is slapped together in Asia, the drilling equipment is from the US, the propulsion systems are usually from Europe with American components (because you guys tend to overcharge us so bad and it take so long to get over in the GoM) the DP systems are almost exclusively Norwegian but all they do is the programing the hardware is mostly from the US (as I was told by the techs themselves - especially since Kongsberg has bought out every other DP company - but hey, we are cool with that), the safety equipment usually has to get changed out for all US made, the foreign flag deal is flag of convenance and just about all of the drilling contractors are run by Americans. Most of the electrical components, I assure you, had to be changed out if they were’t made in the US due to the poor quality and availability of that which was installed in the ship yard. Valves in almost all systems were US made (again, due to quality, expense, and availability) See how this works? Of course, the work boats are all built in the US. The only reason foreign work boats have come over in to the GoM was because at one point, they just couldn’t build them fast enough over here in the last crazy boom. GE is not trying to rectify the purchase of foreign made hardware, they are trying to make money providing a better product with infinitely better customer service then the other American companies.

So - the drilling contractors (US) were basically slapping drill ships together at a high rate using the best equipment available from companies all over the world while the operations people made it work or made it better. Your blanket statements are troubling. I’m not sure you really belong on this forum speaking about a sector/area/country you don’t know a whole lot about.


#36

The point is - it wasn’t the US or any other country that fell behind the tech curve or etc. The drilling industry as a whole were sprinting to keep up with it and get better. Again, this is indicative of your over all, typical prejudice against all things not Norwegian. It’s tiresome.


#37

OF COURSE…no country in Europe was prepared to defend against the blitzkrieg. For a superior army, the invasion is the easy part…it’s the occupation against an ARMED and DETERMINED people on their own land that has proven troublesome…Recent examples? The French in Vietnam, US in Vietnam, USSR in Afghanistan, US in Iraq/Afghanistan. In each case, a more advanced military got bogged down and eventually stalemates or loses against a technologically inferior enemy. But it ONLY happens if the invaded people are armed AND willing to fight…if not,

the population is subjugated and the invading force moves on.

The greatest irony is that history is repeating itself RIGHT NOW in Europe! The difference is this invasion is being propagated by the European governments (is that plural anymore?) themselves! But the common thread remains…the average citizen is not in a position to defend himself and his family. Hard to have sympathy this time, however. The lessons of less than 100 years ago haven’t been heeded so you will reap what you have sown.


#38

I give up. Which Drillship or Rig are you referring to??? It doesn’t sound like any newly built one I have seen the last 10-15 years heading for the US GoM, or anywhere else for that matter, and I have seen many, both built in Singapore, Korea and China.
They are not “slapt together from cheap steel somewhere in Asia”, they are built to the highest standard as required by Class, Flag States and Clients.

The Drilling equipment isn’t from the US. Although it is marked “NOV” it is designed and made in Norway: http://www.nov.com/Norway.aspx

DP systems are as you say mostly Kongsberg and, like nearly all electronics it is made from components made all over the world and assembled into the end product somewhere. (Maybe in China, like the IPhone, IPad and almost all other “American” electronic product. I don’t know)
The key to it is development of the operative system and software to make it do it’s job properly, which is developed in Norway, with service facilities worldwide.
Continuous R&D keeps them the leaders in their business, not only for DPS: https://www.km.kongsberg.com/ks/web/nokbg0237.nsf/AllWeb/5DA9836E54D225B6C12575EC003FC3B5?OpenDocument
Safety equipment are mostly of European origin. Lifeboats are mostly by Norsafe or Schat Harding, but may be produced at facilities in China. Don’t know of any US made eqv. I haven’t seen any Whittaker Capsules on any new rigs or platforms for many years. (They are banned in many countries)
We all know why they are using FOC register and why they are manned by American when working within US EEZ only. We also know why most of the American Drilling and Construction Contractors have their HQ in Switzerland, UAE or somewhere else comfortable. No need to rip up in that here.
Changing out ABB or Siemens electrical equipment worth million?? Sorry, I don’t believe you. Unless you are talking about cheap workboats built in China with the cheapest possible minor components and minimal supervision?
I know that some Korean built Drill ships and MODUs came to Singapore to do modification, or install additional equipment, because Korean yards just built standard designs and were not keen on modifications. But once they left for the US they were fully fitted out as required, valves incl.
BTW: Where do they go to do all these major modification you are talking about?

The saga of the workboats have been hashed over so many times, I don’t think it necessary
to repeat it now.

Oh, by the way, I have over 40 years in the business, What about you Christine?


#39

Maybe such a small nation does not need sovereignty as it clearly can’t defend it.

I guess it doesn’t matter now, you’ve been conquered by the Germans with the Euro, no shots fired. I guess if you can’t beat them, you might as well join them.

The folks in Warsaw felt different. If the population there was armed things would have been different. They lasted a month with a few pistols and rifles.


#40

A small number of Norwegian resistance fighters kept 400,000 German soldiers in Norway during the war, thus denying them from service on the Eastern Front, where the main battle of WWII in Europe was fought.

That it is impossible to win a war against determined insurgence or guerillas is a lesson that should have been learnt long ago. Mao Tse Tung said many years ago; “You cannot win a war on the Asian mainland without have the populations with you”.If his words had been hided millions of lives and trillions of dollars would have been saved.

It doesn’t help to have ballistic missiles, nuclear submarines, or aircraft carriers to fight an insurgency, Any number of expensive F-35s, or B-52 bombers are useless for the purpose as well.

I don’t believe that having every home armed and ready to defend itself is the answer either. Education, economic development and elimination of fanatisme on all sides would be much less costly and probably more efficient than to try to bomb people into submission.