I joined this board (which, by the way, is an incredible resource) because I have been in yachts for 20 years and am interested in switching to the commercial side for the rest of my working career. I have no problem with starting at the bottom again, and figure being an AB for a while would be a good way to learn the ropes.
I have AB Unlimited with Lifeboatman, STCW, GMDSS Operator, MARPA, BRM, etc,… all the things you needed to have to get a Master Oceans 500 Ton under the old licensing scheme.
It would be nice to get on a tug and start working on a TOAR, but I have no pipe dreams of getting a MOTV endorsement in 30 days, I like the idea of learning it all from the deck.
Last year I spoke briefly with a real nice guy at Local 333 in NY, but I did not pursue anything because I was just trying to learn more before I jumped in with both feet.
If I decide to go the start at the bottom route, and would like to work in tugs, do I need to join and go to the hall every day?
[quote=Flyer69;14266]I joined this board (which, by the way, is an incredible resource) because I have been in yachts for 20 years and am interested in switching to the commercial side for the rest of my working career. I have no problem with starting at the bottom again, and figure being an AB for a while would be a good way to learn the ropes.
I have AB Unlimited with Lifeboatman, STCW, GMDSS Operator, MARPA, BRM, etc,… all the things you needed to have to get a Master Oceans 500 Ton under the old licensing scheme.
It would be nice to get on a tug and start working on a TOAR, but I have no pipe dreams of getting a MOTV endorsement in 30 days, I like the idea of learning it all from the deck.
Last year I spoke briefly with a real nice guy at Local 333 in NY, but I did not pursue anything because I was just trying to learn more before I jumped in with both feet.
If I decide to go the start at the bottom route, and would like to work in tugs, do I need to join and go to the hall every day?[/quote]
This is a very flexible industry so you don’t (jump in with both feet)in anything. contrary to common believe the union don’t really have a problem with you working for a non union company. As long as you do 90 days a year you keep your seniority or 120 you keep your benefits and seniority. you can work for whoever you want to for the rest of the year no questions asked. Done it myself.
As far as going to the union every day. It depends on your seniority and how bad you need a job. I’m not a big fan of sitting in the union hall so what I do is this. About a month before I really need to go to work I stop at the union every now and then. If I see something I like I grab it. It’s been working for me. If you’re not piky you can ship out pretty fast. But you got to keep in mind that some jobs pay almost twice as much for the same position. Personally I would rather wait a little bit and get a good paying job instead of jumping at the first one I see.
Try this and that and see what works for you the best.
Is the SIU worth it? I’m an ex trucker (my company collapsed in May) who went back to school (and used my Navy time) and got my AB (unlimited), Lifeboatman, RFPNW, OS, Wiper, and Steward; I’ve been looking for a non-union job since the summer, and have gotten no response at all; I’m considering joining at the Norfolk VA union hall, but blowing another 400 dollars (after all I spent to get the school and certifications) is daunting. Can an AB (even with a C book) ship without waiting forever?
I think of course each individual’s needs are going to be different. I know if you’re a younger person and have a Navy background MSC is a good place to get started commercially. They will pay for all your schooling and it’s a great way to get sea time towards your license. Also if you’re an engineer and join MEBA AFTER you get hired at MSC your initiation fee will be waved and you can start getting time towards your Group 1 card. You would have to check with the MMP to see if they have the same deal. As far as joining the SIU while working for MSC, to be honest I wouldn’t bother. Also if you decide to make MSC a career you used to be able to combine your active duty and civil service time, you’d have to check and see if they still offer this. I know at the present time MEBA is a good place to get started. We have lots of open board jobs and occasionally a Group 2 (or even 3) can land a good box boat job. You CAN get started with any Union it’s just a matter of how high your overhead is for some of them. I know that I really struggled the first 2 years with MEBA but after that I could work ona regular basis evebn if not on the best ships. It usually takes abotu 5 or 6 years to make Group 1 and then you’re set.
I am in a union and work for a company that has half the officers in a union and the other half are non union. The company treats the union workers with much more respect than the non union guys. When its time to relocate to a new ship, or return to work, the unions guys are asked. The non union guys are TOLD. Engineers are union and a 3rd, 2nd, or 1st make more money than the deck counterpart.
[QUOTE=electro;14158]I completely agree with the above posts. I worked both union and non union. From my experience non union companies tend to have better benefits but pay less. The biggest advantage, for me, being with the union is u can have more flexible schedule ie you can stay ashore as long as you want to and still keep your benefits ( 125 work days minimum in a year) but on the other hand most union jobs tend to have longer hitches (60-120 days) . Also if you get laid off or fired from a union job you can just go to the hall a get another job, if available, while if it happens on non union job u have to start the hole proses all over again (job interview, resume and so on). If you live close to a union hall you have a big advantage if not it’s pain in the ***. I think as an AB unlimited you will never have a problem finding a job with SIU. It might be not the best paying one but better than nothing specially these days. I hope this post helps you with your dessicion. good luck.[/QUOTE]
I agree a lot with this post. The freedom to go to a hall and work or stay home a while longer is a big appeal to me. Some of the smaller unions (SUP, IBU, Local 333) are much more limited in types of ships/jobs and geographic operating locations/union halls. But the SIU has got it all. Heck, there are even union halls in places like St. Louis, Joliet and Algonac… So there are options for places to live near union halls.
I have worked both union and non-union, I’ll take a union job anyday over a non-union gig.
And with a union you can build both seniority and a pension while going to school for free. You also have the support of the union behind you when looking at trying to rise through the ranks of the Merchant Marine.
But I think that union jobs are good paying, with good bennies and you get vacation pay as well.
[QUOTE=Capt_Anonymous;14261]Huh. Never heard of it, but I haven’t heard of a lot of stuff yet. :)[/QUOTE]MM&P certainly does have an unlicensed division. The company I’m with, Grand River Navigation is MM&P top to bottom including the engineers and unlicensed deck, engine and stewards. We are part of the United Inland Group of MM&P. Four weeks schooling at MITAGS for free every year is one of the more attractive benefits too.
[QUOTE=ErnieO;44505]I think of course each individual’s needs are going to be different. I know if you’re a younger person and have a Navy background MSC is a good place to get started commercially. They will pay for all your schooling and it’s a great way to get sea time towards your license. Also if you’re an engineer and join MEBA AFTER you get hired at MSC your initiation fee will be waved and you can start getting time towards your Group 1 card. You would have to check with the MMP to see if they have the same deal. As far as joining the SIU while working for MSC, to be honest I wouldn’t bother. Also if you decide to make MSC a career you used to be able to combine your active duty and civil service time, you’d have to check and see if they still offer this. I know at the present time MEBA is a good place to get started. We have lots of open board jobs and occasionally a Group 2 (or even 3) can land a good box boat job. You CAN get started with any Union it’s just a matter of how high your overhead is for some of them. I know that I really struggled the first 2 years with MEBA but after that I could work ona regular basis evebn if not on the best ships. It usually takes abotu 5 or 6 years to make Group 1 and then you’re set.[/QUOTE]
ErnieO, quick question - Can you really join MEBA to get started? According to their website, you need the following:
Possess a USCG 3A/E Unlimited Steam and Motor License
Obtain 120 days licensed engineer sailing time on a MEBA contracted vessel within 2 years of date of application (Academy training sea time shall count provided applicant provides to MEBA proof of completion (USCG discharges) of 60 days of licensed engineer sailing time on MEBA contracted vessels within 12 months of date of application)
Submit two (2) letters of recommendation from a Chief or First Assistant engineer with whom you have sailed for at least 30 days as a licensed engineer under a MEBA contract
Are you saying that you can start off as a wiper with MEBA? Forgive my ignorance, but I’m looking for my first job at the moment. Thanks.
[QUOTE=injunear;14250]It’s not all sitting in a hall waiting on a job. You can work into a permanant job with regular rotation if you choose. Most tug, dredge and ATB jobs are permanant with.
The main complaint I’ve heard from the inland guys was that with a 28/28 rotation, it was hard to get into classes to upgrade without losing too much time. Some companies are paying rotation wages while upgrading at Piney Point. Not a bad deal.[/QUOTE]
What inland companies send you to Piney Point? My impression, from my job search, is that most jobs with a rotation like that are towboat jobs, and there’s no union, no SIU, at least. But then maybe they don’t advertise… Anyway, if you could name some companies that do a rotation like that and pay for school at SIU, I’d greatly appreciate it.
[QUOTE=MariaW;177173]What inland companies send you to Piney Point? My impression, from my job search, is that most jobs with a rotation like that are towboat jobs, and there’s no union, no SIU, at least. But then maybe they don’t advertise… Anyway, if you could name some companies that do a rotation like that and pay for school at SIU, I’d greatly appreciate it.[/QUOTE]
Let’s see, Crowley, Penn Maritime (Now Kirby), Most Phily Docking Companies (Moran…) Moran Baltimore, OSG, Tampa
With OSG, Unlicensed Deck = SIU (OS, ABT [Tankerman]), Engine and Deck Officers = AMO. Captains and Chiefs are not covered by Collective Bargaining but Benefits and Retirement are through AMO.
This list might be a little out of date. but as you can see there are more than a couple of “Tug” companies that work Coastwise and run ATB’s. So if you do a little research you will find some companies besides “River” or other Truly Inland Companies that are Union.
I do agree with what injunear said, working a 14-14, 21-21 or 28-28 makes it very hard to fit any schooling into your schedule. Most people if lucky enough (which I never was) work it out with their Reliefs to cover the vessel while you go to school. This way you just work over for them after school so no one loses any time or pay.
[QUOTE=MariaW;177173]What inland companies send you to Piney Point? My impression, from my job search, is that most jobs with a rotation like that are towboat jobs, and there’s no union, no SIU, at least. But then maybe they don’t advertise… Anyway, if you could name some companies that do a rotation like that and pay for school at SIU, I’d greatly appreciate it.[/QUOTE]
Tugs pretty well covered it but also add a couple of dredge outfits. All companies that are SIU contracted pay you your day rate and OT, then pays a contribution to the med insurance, pension fund, travel fund, and school fund. If you are a member in good standing, the SIU pays your travel expenses to and from Piney Point. Room and board are covered also. It is just difficult to plan your rotation with the scheduled courses.
Several companies have their annual safety seminars at Piney Point and schedule courses for PIC, resource mgt, GMDSS, ect at the same time. At these events, the company pays your day rate while attending. Crowley had an AB to mate program (by recommendation of the master) where you attended PP for the required courses, they paid your base wage on a 28/28 basis while attending. Your spouse could also reside with you for just a few dollars a day. Not sure if it’s still in place but several friends came out with their 3rd mates ticket.
[QUOTE=Tugs;177184] So if you do a little research you will find some companies besides “River” or other Truly Inland Companies that are Union.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MariaW;177189]But are any “Truly Inland” companies union?[/QUOTE]
Yes. 'Inland" means different things in different places. According to the USCG, Puget Sound is Inland. So is the Inside Passage of British Columbia and Southest Alaska. Lots of harbor companies. Then there are those high paying Chesapeake Bay tugs. Then there is the Great Lakes.