What the Hell is Good Seamanship?

freighterman · September 22, 2016, 2:50pm

[QUOTE=Nelson Delmar;190697]Rigging should be included, such as a bosun chair, staging, block/tackle…[/QUOTE]
I like crane signals. I think everyone would use those fairly often, when working on almost every type of commercial vessel. But bosuns chairs: how many different operations use bosuns chairs? Are they used often on tug and OSVs? Smaller vessels may them very rarely, when in fact a little knowledge my prove dangerous. What do others think?

Lee_Shore · September 22, 2016, 3:50pm

[QUOTE=freighterman;190702]I like crane signals. I think everyone would use those fairly often, when working on almost every type of commercial vessel. But bosuns chairs: how many different operations use bosuns chairs? Are they used often on tug and OSVs? Smaller vessels may them very rarely, when in fact a little knowledge my prove dangerous. What do others think?[/QUOTE]

Definitely crane signals. I’ve used bosun’s chairs a bunch on sailboats and a handful of times on ships to reach areas of the house for painting. Also stages for painting the exterior of the ship’s hull. I don’t have the experience to comment on tugs or OSVs.

PS I don’t see anything you should delete.

farmerfalconer · September 22, 2016, 4:21pm

[QUOTE=freighterman;190693]Based on all your comments, here is a proposed, revised BASIC standard for deck seamanship, common to nearly all commercial vessels. A list of we can use to measure an AB against, to see if they can even be called, by We exalted Old Salts, a sailor… Maybe not the best sailor, or the most knowledgeable, or even the most useful sailor, but a sailor nevertheless. With each particular seagoing trade comes another particular skillset, but this would be the common core to judge a sailor against.

I skip most of the safety stuff because that’s a lengthy subject all in itself. As to attitude and character…that’s a whole other list,too.

Not entirely a useless exercise. At my operation we will be training a few greenhorns next year. We’re at a place where we can go beyond just training the basics in a hurry, and actually attempt to turn them into reasonable facsimiles of sailors. But we need guidelines to go by, hence my interest in your ideas.

So here’s the revised list. I added a suggestion by Nelson Delmar. Elsewhere I put in a couple of notes DELETE THIS? because I thought some readers thought those particular skills were unnecessary. What do you think?

Ability to tie-up a vessel.
Knows names and functions of mooring lines. (Springlines, breastlines, etc,)
Mooring line safety.
Can safely use windlasses and capstans in linehandling.
Can tension mooring lines by hand.
Can use stoppers.
Can use heaving lines.
Basics of anchoring
Operation of classic anchor windlass, with winch heads.
Simple ships nomenclature and directions. Port side, bulwark, athwartships, port quarter, etc.
Knotting, while blindfolded: hal- hitch, bowline, clove hitch, sheet bend, double sheet bend.
Can make a monkey’s fist.
Can make an eye splice and short splice in 3-strand rope, and some other type of line (8-strand braided or Samson, etc).
Can whip the end of the line with tape or twine. Knows knife safety.
Can safely lash down objects to deck or bulwarks, of chains, chain binders binders, steamboat ratchets, webbing ratchet straps, and common line. Knows the principle of securing items without damaging them.
Knows wire rope handling. Can spool wire rope onto a winch, or coil it on deck, without kinking the wire.
Can hand steer. Basic knowledge of necessity and practice of switching from autopilot to hand-steering, and vice versa.
Can steer by compass.
Knows classic steering commands. [DELETE THIS?]
Can serve as competent lookout. Can tell at night the difference between navigation aids and vessels.
Can tell the orientation of a vessel from her sidelights.
Can tell the following vessels by their lights: fishing boat, sail boat, power-driven vessel, tug with tow. DELETE THIS?]
Knows why tides and currents are important in tending mooring lines and in small boat ops.
Does not know need to know how to calculate tides and currents but should know roughly how many times a day the tide turns for the ocean they are operating on, or at least know enough to ask the question. [DELETE THIS?]
Knows how to paint. Importance and practice of steel preparation before painting. Difference between primer and paint. Necessity of respirators when using certain types of paint.
Operates under the principle of “Secure your ship today because you might not have a chance to do it later.”[/QUOTE]

As a greenhorn that has recently gone through two company’s “new guy initiation” phases that were on vastly different ends of the formality spectrum I think I can say that that looks pretty good.

I see no reason to delete common hand steering commands. Out of all the things listed that is probably one of the easiest things to learn. There aren’t but maybe ten?

If we keep casting these old traditions and mannerisms by the wayside we will eventually end up with bridge conversations that sound like:

“Rudder to the right a bit. Like… 15 degrees. That’s like, good right there…”

Officers and crew knowing standard steering commands facilitates moving from vessel to vessel easier. The are fewer “quirks” that the new hand needs to learn about the officers.

As far as lights, I think you should at least know the lights that apply to your vessel. Being you are in deck and the officers are on the bridge, you may be the guy that notices a problem. There have been many times I had to let the skipper know that the mast was displaying the incorrect number of lights for towing, pushing, etc (the switches in the wheelhouse were poorly marked).

Definitely knowing the proper names for certain lines, etc is important. You may be green and not know exactly what lines to put out, but as long as you know the proper terminology, the old man can tell you over the radio without much hassle or explanation. Saying “Put an after-bow-spring out.” is far quicker than, “Go to that bit at the bow, now put the line on, now lead it aft to that 2nd cleat there…” and so on and so forth.

Once again, if we lose the language, it will be: “Hey deckhand! Get a rope out from the bit thingy and run it backwards to that second thing with the horns.”

When I first started, I was given very little training. What I did get, was through observing the other deckie while on the job. He didn’t know any of the terminology. Any line near the bow was a bow line and likewise for the stern. Any line between to two was a “midship line”. When we got a new skipper, I asked him on the radio if I should put a “midship line” out. He didn’t know what I meant.

Also the point system for lookout. “Broad on the stbd bow, two points on the port quarter, etc”.

One more thing to consider adding would be giving distances. This might not be as important on blue water ships but when landing a barge the deckhand needs to be able to comfortable speak on the radio and know what to give and when to give it.

Kennebec_Captain · September 23, 2016, 4:46am

Basic deck seamanship would be the level of an OS. Rigging bos’n chair, staging are not basic level. Not something anyone wants a new mariner doing.

Crane safety also includes use of tag lines, securing the load, use of nets, pallets, slings, flying forks etc if used.

In the wheelhouse; basic COLREGS, ie meeting, overtaking, crossing situations, as was mentioned the point system - helm commands if used.

On deck - wire clips, safe working / breaking strength, line commands.

I’d go through a book on seamanship and sort out basic from advanced.

Emrobu · September 23, 2016, 5:02am

On the lines of the very basic: there’s a couple of things I had to learn the hard way because the experienced people around me assumed that I knew or was smart enough to figure out, but I’m just a dumb prairie kid so I had to get shouted at before I realized that I was a hazard to myself.

Don’t stand in the bight.
Don’t hold the rungs on the pilot ladder.
Don’t stand in front of the crankcase doors.
Don’t be too quick on the alarm silence button. (That’s for you Catherder)

Lee_Shore · September 23, 2016, 8:10am

[QUOTE=freighterman;190693]

Not entirely a useless exercise. At my operation we will be training a few greenhorns next year. We’re at a place where we can go beyond just training the basics in a hurry, and actually attempt to turn them into reasonable facsimiles of sailors. But we need guidelines to go by, hence my interest in your ideas.[/QUOTE]

In your OP you asked for input on what appears to be a purely theoretical exercise. In the above post you later reveal that you are putting together a practical curriculum for a class. After going back and reading that, my question is WHY THE HELL DIDN’T YOU PUT THAT OUT UP FRONT?
It changes the whole tone of the exercise. For example, in a perfect theoretical world you might expect a student to tie a dozen knots, blindfolded after a week of training. In the real world it ain’t gonna happen. You’ll be lucky if half a class of greenhorns can tie a half a dozen knots after a week of instruction without help with their eyes wide open. I’m not talking out of my ass, I know this from years of teaching basic and advanced sailing and seamanship courses.
If you are really putting together a curriculum and lesson plans and you want practical useful feedback, how about telling us how many hours will this course run. A week? Two weeks? Is it your intention to turn the average greenhorn off the street into an OS or an OS into AB, or an AB into a BM? What kind of background will these people have.
In teaching the CG 6-pack courses, a surprisingly large percentage of students base their sea time on sitting in a friend’s skiff holding a fishing rod in one hand and a beer in the other. When you hit them with the course material, you get the deer in the headlights reaction. “Oh hell I can’t do this, it’s too complicated”. If you don’t hold their hand, most will flunk out.
Some of the stuff you mention can be taught in a classroom and some of it needs to be taught on the deck of a vessel. You can’t teach someone how to steer or how to effectively toss a line to someone on a pier while they are sitting on their ass in a classroom. There is a big difference between explaining and doing. Will you be taking these students out on the water?
A lot of what you propose is way past what is considered basic. Be more specific. As CaptJackSparrow said above, garbage in, garbage out…

freighterman · September 23, 2016, 1:23pm

[QUOTE=Lee Shore;190721]In your OP you asked for input on what appears to be a purely theoretical exercise. In the above post you later reveal that you are putting together a practical curriculum for a class. After going back and reading that, my question is WHY THE HELL DIDN’T YOU PUT THAT OUT UP FRONT?
It changes the whole tone of the exercise. For example, in a perfect theoretical world you might expect a student to tie a dozen knots, blindfolded after a week of training. In the real world it ain’t gonna happen. You’ll be lucky if half a class of greenhorns can tie a half a dozen knots after a week of instruction without help with their eyes wide open. I’m not talking out of my ass, I know this from years of teaching basic and advanced sailing and seamanship courses.
If you are really putting together a curriculum and lesson plans and you want practical useful feedback, how about telling us how many hours will this course run. A week? Two weeks? Is it your intention to turn the average greenhorn off the street into an OS or an OS into AB, or an AB into a BM? What kind of background will these people have.
In teaching the CG 6-pack courses, a surprisingly large percentage of students base their sea time on sitting in a friend’s skiff holding a fishing rod in one hand and a beer in the other. When you hit them with the course material, you get the deer in the headlights reaction. “Oh hell I can’t do this, it’s too complicated”. If you don’t hold their hand, most will flunk out.
Some of the stuff you mention can be taught in a classroom and some of it needs to be taught on the deck of a vessel. You can’t teach someone how to steer or how to effectively toss a line to someone on a pier while they are sitting on their ass in a classroom. There is a big difference between explaining and doing. Will you be taking these students out on the water?
A lot of what you propose is way past what is considered basic. Be more specific. As CaptJackSparrow said above, garbage in, garbage out…[/QUOTE]

ALWAYS NICE TO SEE A RESPONSE WITH LOTS OF CAPITALS! SHOWS THE READER GIVE TWO $S#ITS ABOUT THE SUBJECT, WHICH I LIKE!!! As the OP, I can tell you the thread began as musing over whether a standard of good seamanship actually exists, or whether all the moaning about the present state of poor seamanship is something Old Salts have griped about since Columbus was a cabin boy (pssst…I think it’s the latter…). And if there IS a standard, what exactly is it? 200 years ago it was whether a sailor could “hand, reef, and steer”. Nowadays, with so many different types of maritime trades out there, what sailorly facets are common to all?

But then I thought, if there IS a Standard, crowdsourced from the combined wisdom of the Gcaptain braintrust, culled from the very best of the scintillating nautical intellects of all of North America and Aalesund, why not make use of it? (Is there an emoji for ‘sarcasm’?)

I train sailors, too, but a different set than yours, I think. Most maritime training is done for hire, preparing a trainee to pass a USCG test. The trainee pays for the training, expecting to pass the test. If the school flunks out more than just a few of the worst of the trainees, you’re not going to stay in business very long. Flunk 90% and you’re out of business overnight. Commercial training is hard on the trainer, who has to deal with bad attitudes and the rest of it, and still pass people.

Given an artificial choice between getting an AB-certificate or superior seamanship skills, a trainee would always pick the AB certificate. That’s an artificial unrealistic choice, but you get my point. Trainees in maritime schools may very well want to absorb professional knowledge, but only if it doesn’t interfere with passing the USCG test.

Digression: Think about how far we’ve come from the original reason for certifying ABs. A hundred years ago the expectation was the AB learned everything on the job. He was tested only to prove he knew his stuff. That quickly devolved to our present reality: inexperienced deckhands cramming their brains with a minimum of book-learning, sufficient to pass a canned test, so that the deckhand gets a pay raise, the company fills its manning requirements, and the growing Marine Industrial Training Complex rakes in millions $$$.
Imagine an alternate universe where a deckhand walked in to the USCG exam room, never having cracked a book, and passed every test with a 75% score, with nothing more than experience and on-the-job training. That would be the same universe where, for their 10th birthday, every boy gets a jetpack, every girl gets a unicorn pony, and superheroes drift lazily among the skyscrapers…

I’m lucky. I don’t do commercial training. I train, among other things, basic seamanship to greenhorns, or maritime academy cadets, before they set foot on one of our freighters as a deckhand. Purely in-house training. My job is to get a trainee 1) up to a minimum standard of seamanship, or 2) can them. No certificates or USCG requirements. I’m not getting paid by the trainees. The list of knots in the standard? We already make trainees tie them BLINDFOLDED. Can’t do that after two weeks of training? You’re canned. Plenty of fish in the sea. (Actually, haven’t met a trainee that took more than four days to learn). We have our own training boat (see below). Trainee has to be able to tie 20 fenders to the rail, one after the other, using a clove hitch and half hitch BLINDFOLDED. Can’t do it after two weeks? You’re canned. After a week of training you can’t tell a springline from an after-spring? You’re canned. Can’t tell a chock from a hole in your head? Can’t steer…you get it.

Now, we have a big advantage. We pick one or two new hires out of a stack of applications. We interview the candidates and submit them to background checks and personality tests. So when they are hired, we have a reasonable expectation of their intellect and character, a luxury not afforded to commercial training schools.

We have real freighters at the dock to crawl over. We have a training boat for linehandling, steering, and for a class we like to call Introduction to Leeward Vomiting in Heavy Seas (we take the trainees through the Straits of Juan de Fuca when wind and tide are against each other). Once we’ve vetted a trainee we can train them pretty quick (two weeks to a month) in the basics of the job. That doesn’t’ mean they’re GOOD at the job. No way. Impossible. There’s a big difference between playing Chopsticks and playing Carnegie Hall, even though they’re both just playing a piano. But either they learn the rudiments or we go on to the next person. No rancor, just business.

To be honest, the process is never as rigorous as we want, because money is still involved. Training a single person means involving senior ABs and officers, and a training boat, all of which costs time and $$$$$. After Week 3 of training, you’re more hesitant about canning the trainee than you were on Day 3, because of the investment.

If all that training prepares one of our greenhorns, to some degree, for AB- testing a year from now, that’s peachy. If it doesn’t, we couldn’t careless, because we have the luxury of creating sailors, not test-takers. In reality, they learn something from all sides, in-house training, on-the-job, and at AB school. Out of all the people we train a few will progress to mate, and when they do we want them long-since to have been real sailors (there’s that term again!). The hardest part of the process? Giving them an intuitive sense of the effect of wind and current on a vessel, so they are always thinking of it on an unconscious level. But the nuts-and-bolts stuff on the list takes about two to four weeks to learn the rudiments of, in addition to other more trade-specific stuff. Then it’s the difficult matter of reinforcing it on the job. But the whole process goes easier with a Standard in hand that’s both realistic and practical.[ATTACH]4496[/ATTACH]

farmerfalconer · September 23, 2016, 1:40pm

[QUOTE=freighterman;190732]ALWAYS NICE TO SEE A RESPONSE WITH LOTS OF CAPITALS! SHOWS THE READER GIVE TWO $S#ITS ABOUT THE SUBJECT, WHICH I LIKE!!! As the OP, I can tell you the thread began as musing over whether a standard of good seamanship actually exists, or whether all the moaning about the present state of poor seamanship is something Old Salts have griped about since Columbus was a cabin boy (pssst…I think it’s the latter…). And if there IS a standard, what exactly is it? 200 years ago it was whether a sailor could “hand, reef, and steer”. Nowadays, with so many different types of maritime trades out there, what sailorly facets are common to all?