Indeed.
Use Stop Work Authority early and often.
[QUOTE=Flyer69;190661]Indeed.
Use Stop Work Authority early and often.[/QUOTE]
1 Like
[QUOTE=Flyer69;190661]Indeed.
Use Stop Work Authority early and often.[/QUOTE]
Mandate 4 hours per day spent in safety meetings concentrating on finding answers to safety questions using Google and 4 hours dedicated to sensitivity training. Reduce watches to 1 hour per day to minimize exposure to risk of injury and the potential for getting offended by uncouth crew members.
I think a gay sailor with good dick suction skills is able to evaluate and properly identify the penises of his bosses on a continual basis based on many factors like the length, diameter and swell, load blowing conditions and direction, the time of the blowjob, etc. I think itâs a good oral stimulation skill to continually review the BMS* procedures for senior officer cum swallowing with all queer semen aboard, to include all fellatio area zones especially where DSD is going down deep.
(*Blowjob Management System)
[QUOTE=Lee Shore;190663]Mandate 4 hours per day spent in safety meetings concentrating on finding answers to safety questions using Google and 4 hours dedicated to sensitivity training. Reduce watches to 1 hour per day to minimize exposure to risk of injury and the potential for getting offended by uncouth crew members.[/QUOTE]
Sometimes the satlink goes down and people [I]have[/I] to stand their watches. But how can they know what to do when the Internet is [I]down?[/I] Donât panic. Weâll tell that old man to take us back to a 4G coverage area. But how will he know how to get there without the [I]Internet??[/I] We are totally [I]hooped![/I]
(now thatâs what I call seamanship, ladies and gentlemen. Or is it showmanship? I get those things confused)
[QUOTE=Nelson Delmar;190654]âSecure your ship today because you might not have a chance to do it tomorrowâ was also one of the first rules of good seamanship that I learned as a youth. Another, right up there in importance was âDonât be late.â[/QUOTE]
The importance of proper mooring has been pointed out here by several contributors.
Here is an example of where that lesson had not been learnt: https://gcaptain.com/watch-truck-fails-at-backing-onto-barge/
[QUOTE=freighterman;190648]Suggested BASIC laundry list for what makes a good DECK seaman, or what constitutes a standard, or rubric, of Good Deck Seamanship.:
- Ability to tie-up a vessel, whether it be 30â long or 900â long. Knows the names of mooring lines, and just as important, how they are supposed to work. (Example: Often in our operation you need to set the headline, leading forward, from the spring line chock, and the springline, leading aft, from the headline chock. Why? Short dock. Bow sticks out farther than the end of the dock. Some deckhands are completely flummoxed by this arrangement, because itâs all monkey-see-monkey-do to them. They donât understand that the line is not named after the chock itâs set through, but rather the direction the mooring line is led).
Mooring line safety.
Familiarity with windlasses and capstans in linehandling. Donât need to know how to operate every type of self-tensioning mooring line system out there, but knows the basics of how to set mooring lines, and how to tension them by hand or power. In this regard, knows how to use stoppers on mooring lines.
Can throw a heaving line and use it with mooring lines.
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Knows the basics of anchoring, and how a classic anchor windlass works.
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Simple ships nomenclature and directions. Port side, Bulwark, and Athwartships shouldnât be cities in FranceâŚ
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Knows knotting and splicing. Not the whole USCG -list of A.B. knots, but you should be able to tie the following four knots blindfolded and hanging from your feet: bowline, clove hitch, sheet bend, double sheet bend. (Wouldnât it be great if ABs were tested while blindfolded and hanging upside-down?) Also, make a monkeyâs fist while sitting down comfortably and not completely drunk. Can put an eye splice and short splice in 3-strand rope, and some other type (8-strand braided or Samson, or something else). Long splice? The next time I NEED to make a long splice will be the first. So not on the list. But maybe someone else out there uses them, and will let us know why. Add in craft-knowledge like whipping the end of the line, knife safety, etc. because itâs all central to knotting and splicing.
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Can lash things down with chains/binders/steamboat rachets, webbing ratchet straps, common line, etc. Knows the principle of doing this without destroying the item being lashed down. (Maybe, maybe, can do it without being told!!)
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Knows how to handle wire rope. Can spool it onto winch, or coil it on deck, without destroying the wire with kinks. (I wish I lived in an alternate universe where ABs spliced wire rope every day. But I donât. The boats I work on go through a lot of wire rope. We never splice. Just replace. So I canât justify saying an AB needs to know how to splice wire. Maybe fodder for a whole other thread: Do You Splice Wire, and Why?)
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Can hand steer. Might need to learn how to operate the steering system on a particular boat, but the technique of steering a vessel should be old hat, as should be the classic steering commands.
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Can serve as competent lookout. Can tell at night the difference between a light house and a vessel, and what side of the vessel he or she is looking at. Maybe a little more: a fishing boat from a sail boat, a motor vessel from a tug. But maybe thatâs too ambitious .
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Doesnât need to know how to calculate the time of tides, but sure knows what tides and currents are, and roughly how often they come each day, and how linehandling and small boat ops are affected by them.
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Knows how to paint. I know some pretty skilled, very intelligent ABs that still donât why primer is used, and so donât use it.[/QUOTE]
Steering and lookout are standard skills for an AB. Not mnay ships require slicing wire but if it is needed the ABs can do it once theyâve been shown. The ABs should be able to safely make a tug fast and run lines but typically a mate will be in charge.
Painting - if they donât know the bosân or leading seaman should be able to show them.
Calculating tides - the mates calculate the tides in port and post it where it can be seen by the crew.
[QUOTE=freighterman;190648]Suggested BASIC laundry list for what makes a good DECK seaman, or what constitutes a standard, or rubric, of Good Deck Seamanship.:
- Ability to tie-up a vessel, whether it be 30â long or 900â long. Knows the names of mooring lines, and just as important, how they are supposed to work. (Example: Often in our operation you need to set the headline, leading forward, from the spring line chock, and the springline, leading aft, from the headline chock. Why? Short dock. Bow sticks out farther than the end of the dock. Some deckhands are completely flummoxed by this arrangement, because itâs all monkey-see-monkey-do to them. They donât understand that the line is not named after the chock itâs set through, but rather the direction the mooring line is led). [/QUOTE]
1)I donât think it is realistic to expect an AB who is a whiz on a 30â tug to step aboard a 900â ocean going ship with no additional training and time on the job and be close to proficient at most aspects of deck work and vice versa. The two vessels donât have much in common other than they are floating on water. Each has its own specialized gear and operational challenges. Mooring procedures are vastly different and
8) they donât respond to steering inputs the same way either.
Thatâs why I said earlier that thereâs no one size fits all laundry list.
[QUOTE=lm1883;190678]Iâm not quite sure a agree with your first sentence, at least that hasnât been my experience as an officer. Many ABs that I had came off tugs on their first trip âdeep draftâ and were great. As long as the officers and bosun are competent there shouldnât be a big learning curve, in fact, it seemed that tug guys were more proficient with some things than our regular deep draft guys. The relationship was beneficial to all parties, usually.[/QUOTE]
This is my experience as well. Same with the mates that have towed. Sometimes the deep-sea mariners seem institutionalized or something.
[QUOTE=lm1883;190678]Iâm not quite sure a agree with your first sentence, at least that hasnât been my experience as an officer. Many ABs that I had came off tugs on their first trip âdeep draftâ and were great. As long as the officers and bosun are competent there shouldnât be a big learning curve, in fact, it seemed that tug guys were more proficient with some things than our regular deep draft guys. The relationship was beneficial to all parties, usually.[/QUOTE]
Of course I would expect a capable AB switching from a tug to a ship or vice versa to have transferable skills which would serve well and that especially with some input from mates or the bosun, the transition will be smooth. It doesnât have to be a big learning curve but still some adjustments need to be made. In any case it only takes one jerk with a chip on his shoulder to make life difficult for the new guy. Itâs wrong but Iâve seen it happen.
[QUOTE=Lee Shore;190681]In any case it only takes one jerk with a chip on his shoulder to make life difficult for the new guy. Itâs wrong but Iâve seen it happen.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this is a whole other thing. Some crews have a low-skill bully who is threated by anyone with actual skills. How do they get away with it, by kissing the captains/cheif mateâs ass. Bully down, kiss up.
Itâs surprising how many seinor offiers prefer to have their ass kissed to having a smooth running ship.
I thought it means that you are able to get a woman pregnantâŚ
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;190682]
Itâs surprising how many seinor offiers prefer to have their ass kissed to having a smooth running ship.[/QUOTE]
Itâs not all that surprising. Many people love politics and drama, if it wasnât true HBO would be unprofitable. Here on the forum we see people go out of their way, sometimes to stir-up drama because thereâs a certain amount of fun in it for them. Not fun as in playfulness, but fun as in negative-entertainment. As you say, though, this kind of thing can interfere with smooth running. The best leaders (of all ranks) that I have worked with are finely tuned in to that line. The ones who like to play kiss-up bully-down are deeply invested in their personal soap-opera. They arenât so hard to spot.
2 Likes
I think itâs more than one.
[QUOTE=dredgeboater;190685]I think itâs more than one.[/QUOTE]
Iâm not a doctor, but I think it only takes one.
[QUOTE=Emrobu;190684]Itâs not all that surprising. Many people love politics and drama, if it wasnât true HBO would be unprofitable. Here on the forum we see people go out of their way, sometimes to stir-up drama because thereâs a certain amount of fun in it for them. Not fun as in playfulness, but fun as in negative-entertainment. As you say, though, this kind of thing can interfere with smooth running. The best leaders (of all ranks) that I have worked with are finely tuned in to that line. The ones who like to play kiss-up bully-down are deeply invested in their personal soap-opera. They arenât so hard to spot.[/QUOTE]
Good point, astute.
This type of crew problem stems from the captain or chief failing to support the hierarchy. On some ships the command structure is the captain is in charge and all other crew subordinate and equal. If crew knows that the captain is not going to support the department heads and they want something they go straight to the captain. Usually this results in some kiss-ass having power out of proportion to his position.
1 Like
Based on all your comments, here is a proposed, revised BASIC standard for deck seamanship, common to nearly all commercial vessels. A list of we can use to measure an AB against, to see if they can even be called, by We exalted Old Salts, a sailor⌠Maybe not the best sailor, or the most knowledgeable, or even the most useful sailor, but a sailor nevertheless. With each particular seagoing trade comes another particular skillset, but this would be the common core to judge a sailor against.
I skip most of the safety stuff because thatâs a lengthy subject all in itself. As to attitude and characterâŚthatâs a whole other list,too.
Not entirely a useless exercise. At my operation we will be training a few greenhorns next year. Weâre at a place where we can go beyond just training the basics in a hurry, and actually attempt to turn them into reasonable facsimiles of sailors. But we need guidelines to go by, hence my interest in your ideas.
So hereâs the revised list. I added a suggestion by Nelson Delmar. Elsewhere I put in a couple of notes DELETE THIS? because I thought some readers thought those particular skills were unnecessary. What do you think?
-
Ability to tie-up a vessel.
Knows names and functions of mooring lines. (Springlines, breastlines, etc,)
Mooring line safety.
Can safely use windlasses and capstans in linehandling.
Can tension mooring lines by hand.
Can use stoppers.
Can use heaving lines. -
Basics of anchoring
Operation of classic anchor windlass, with winch heads. -
Simple ships nomenclature and directions. Port side, bulwark, athwartships, port quarter, etc.
-
Knotting, while blindfolded: hal- hitch, bowline, clove hitch, sheet bend, double sheet bend.
Can make a monkeyâs fist.
Can make an eye splice and short splice in 3-strand rope, and some other type of line (8-strand braided or Samson, etc).
Can whip the end of the line with tape or twine. Knows knife safety. -
Can safely lash down objects to deck or bulwarks, of chains, chain binders binders, steamboat ratchets, webbing ratchet straps, and common line. Knows the principle of securing items without damaging them.
-
Knows wire rope handling. Can spool wire rope onto a winch, or coil it on deck, without kinking the wire.
-
Can hand steer. Basic knowledge of necessity and practice of switching from autopilot to hand-steering, and vice versa.
Can steer by compass.
Knows classic steering commands. [DELETE THIS?] -
Can serve as competent lookout. Can tell at night the difference between navigation aids and vessels.
Can tell the orientation of a vessel from her sidelights.
Can tell the following vessels by their lights: fishing boat, sail boat, power-driven vessel, tug with tow. DELETE THIS?] -
Knows why tides and currents are important in tending mooring lines and in small boat ops.
Does not know need to know how to calculate tides and currents but should know roughly how many times a day the tide turns for the ocean they are operating on, or at least know enough to ask the question. [DELETE THIS?] -
Knows how to paint. Importance and practice of steel preparation before painting. Difference between primer and paint. Necessity of respirators when using certain types of paint.
-
Operates under the principle of âSecure your ship today because you might not have a chance to do it later.â
[QUOTE=freighterman;190693]Based on all your comments, here is a proposed, revised BASIC standard for deck seamanship, common to nearly all commercial vessels. A list of we can use to measure an AB against, to see if they can even be called, by We exalted Old Salts, a sailor⌠Maybe not the best sailor, or the most knowledgeable, or even the most useful sailor, but a sailor nevertheless. With each particular seagoing trade comes another particular skillset, but this would be the common core to judge a sailor against.
I skip most of the safety stuff because thatâs a lengthy subject all in itself. As to attitude and characterâŚthatâs a whole other list,too.
Not entirely a useless exercise. At my operation we will be training a few greenhorns next year. Weâre at a place where we can go beyond just training the basics in a hurry, and actually attempt to turn them into reasonable facsimiles of sailors. But we need guidelines to go by, hence my interest in your ideas.
So hereâs the revised list. I added a suggestion by Nelson Delmar. Elsewhere I put in a couple of notes DELETE THIS? because I thought some readers thought those particular skills were unnecessary. What do you think?
-
Ability to tie-up a vessel.
Knows names and functions of mooring lines. (Springlines, breastlines, etc,)
Mooring line safety.
Can safely use windlasses and capstans in linehandling.
Can tension mooring lines by hand.
Can use stoppers.
Can use heaving lines. -
Basics of anchoring
Operation of classic anchor windlass, with winch heads. -
Simple ships nomenclature and directions. Port side, bulwark, athwartships, port quarter, etc.
-
Knotting, while blindfolded: hal- hitch, bowline, clove hitch, sheet bend, double sheet bend.
Can make a monkeyâs fist.
Can make an eye splice and short splice in 3-strand rope, and some other type of line (8-strand braided or Samson, etc).
Can whip the end of the line with tape or twine. Knows knife safety. -
Can safely lash down objects to deck or bulwarks, of chains, chain binders binders, steamboat ratchets, webbing ratchet straps, and common line. Knows the principle of securing items without damaging them.
-
Knows wire rope handling. Can spool wire rope onto a winch, or coil it on deck, without kinking the wire.
-
Can hand steer. Basic knowledge of necessity and practice of switching from autopilot to hand-steering, and vice versa.
Can steer by compass.
Knows classic steering commands. [DELETE THIS?] -
Can serve as competent lookout. Can tell at night the difference between navigation aids and vessels.
Can tell the orientation of a vessel from her sidelights.
Can tell the following vessels by their lights: fishing boat, sail boat, power-driven vessel, tug with tow. DELETE THIS?] -
Knows why tides and currents are important in tending mooring lines and in small boat ops.
Does not know need to know how to calculate tides and currents but should know roughly how many times a day the tide turns for the ocean they are operating on, or at least know enough to ask the question. [DELETE THIS?] -
Knows how to paint. Importance and practice of steel preparation before painting. Difference between primer and paint. Necessity of respirators when using certain types of paint.
-
Operates under the principle of âSecure your ship today because you might not have a chance to do it later.â[/QUOTE]
Suggestions:
-
In the knot department I would add the âtruckerâs hitchâ for securing deck cargo.
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I would add the awareness of wind direction to the awareness of currents in any evolution.
Suggestions:
-
In the knot department I would add the âtruckerâs hitchâ for securing deck cargo.
-
I would add the awareness of wind strength and direction to the awareness of currents in any evolution.
[QUOTE=freighterman;190693]Based on all your comments, here is a proposed, revised BASIC standard for deck seamanship, common to nearly all commercial vessels. A list of we can use to measure an AB against, to see if they can even be called, by We exalted Old Salts, a sailor⌠Maybe not the best sailor, or the most knowledgeable, or even the most useful sailor, but a sailor nevertheless. With each particular seagoing trade comes another particular skillset, but this would be the common core to judge a sailor against.
I skip most of the safety stuff because thatâs a lengthy subject all in itself. As to attitude and characterâŚthatâs a whole other list,too.
Not entirely a useless exercise. At my operation we will be training a few greenhorns next year. Weâre at a place where we can go beyond just training the basics in a hurry, and actually attempt to turn them into reasonable facsimiles of sailors. But we need guidelines to go by, hence my interest in your ideas.
So hereâs the revised list. I added a suggestion by Nelson Delmar. Elsewhere I put in a couple of notes DELETE THIS? because I thought some readers thought those particular skills were unnecessary. What do you think?
-
Ability to tie-up a vessel.
Knows names and functions of mooring lines. (Springlines, breastlines, etc,)
Mooring line safety.
Can safely use windlasses and capstans in linehandling.
Can tension mooring lines by hand.
Can use stoppers.
Can use heaving lines. -
Basics of anchoring
Operation of classic anchor windlass, with winch heads. -
Simple ships nomenclature and directions. Port side, bulwark, athwartships, port quarter, etc.
-
Knotting, while blindfolded: hal- hitch, bowline, clove hitch, sheet bend, double sheet bend.
Can make a monkeyâs fist.
Can make an eye splice and short splice in 3-strand rope, and some other type of line (8-strand braided or Samson, etc).
Can whip the end of the line with tape or twine. Knows knife safety. -
Can safely lash down objects to deck or bulwarks, of chains, chain binders binders, steamboat ratchets, webbing ratchet straps, and common line. Knows the principle of securing items without damaging them.
-
Knows wire rope handling. Can spool wire rope onto a winch, or coil it on deck, without kinking the wire.
-
Can hand steer. Basic knowledge of necessity and practice of switching from autopilot to hand-steering, and vice versa.
Can steer by compass.
Knows classic steering commands. [DELETE THIS?] -
Can serve as competent lookout. Can tell at night the difference between navigation aids and vessels.
Can tell the orientation of a vessel from her sidelights.
Can tell the following vessels by their lights: fishing boat, sail boat, power-driven vessel, tug with tow. DELETE THIS?] -
Knows why tides and currents are important in tending mooring lines and in small boat ops.
Does not know need to know how to calculate tides and currents but should know roughly how many times a day the tide turns for the ocean they are operating on, or at least know enough to ask the question. [DELETE THIS?] -
Knows how to paint. Importance and practice of steel preparation before painting. Difference between primer and paint. Necessity of respirators when using certain types of paint.
-
Operates under the principle of âSecure your ship today because you might not have a chance to do it later.â[/QUOTE]
Rigging should be included, such as a bosun chair, staging, block/tackle. Also crane operation and signals. They donât need to be an expert but at least comfortable at it.
I would also add âshow up on time and ready to workâ. You would think this goes without saying, but weâve all seen it the other way.