Regional differences: a lot of deep sea mariners have kids going to MMA.
I havenāt met many
I think the secret has been out for quite awhile.
There must be some reason why there are so many MMA grads in the PNW.
Five years ago, it was easy to get several really good candidates from the Small Vessel Program. Now itās a struggle for me to get any, they all have too many better paying opportunities.
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I meant MaineMA.
I rarely see or even hear about guys from MassMA. There must not be very many of them, or they all go deep sea.
Do you live in a coastal town with a lot of other mariners?
How many of your high school classmates went to an academy?
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Actually, theyāre really, really bad sailors. Iād never hire any of them. Nor should anyone else. Especially anyone else. Never met one that didnāt have a limb missing. Most are in the witness protection program. Cheat at cards. Steal your woman away. Anyone that hired one would be a fool. Just say, No to hiring them. /s
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They talk funny too. Canāt understand a word they say.
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Yes, with a well documented and and historic seafaring tradition that includes whaling, fishing, and commerce.
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GLMA can be done in 2.5 years. A lot of us have done it. However, once you working professionally as a Great Lakes Pilot, it is difficult to come out to the Oceans because of the additional requirements to maintain an Oceans License. While once you graduate GLMA (with First Class Pilotage) and sail Oceans, you can usually go back to the Lakes (if you donāt burn ay bridges).
Lakers tend to work in the summers and have winters off. I chose to sail on the Oceans so I could be home in the summers with my kids when they were young.
GLMA is a bit easier for us folks who entered the field with other career experiences and being a bit older. It isnāt as rigid as some of the other schools and doesnāt have the military-type regiment. That being said, it is not an easy school to get through. the pilotage is very challenging and the 2.5 year pace is demanding. A year of that is split between the training ship and 2 commercial vessels (cruises).
While not impossible, itās very difficult to get pilotage on the Lakes without going to GLMA and Iād strongly advise against it. If Great Lakes Pilotage is a goal, then go to GLMA. It will take YEARS to get pilotage if you decide to get it later, while it is part of the normal program at GLMA. The river and lakes trips if done through the school are about half of whatās required if you get them at a later time. Also, the school makes sure you get almost all of your trips on the training ship, so your commercial trips are a small portion of the requirement.
Itās no secret, some of the best ship handlers in the country are on the Lakes. No tugs, just amazing ship handling. My hats off to all pilots, but Lakers are a different breed. Itās a vibe that some really love. It is very unique. You really have to experience it to understand.
Anyone who graduates GLMA has to have pilotage. By the time you graduate, you will know if you want to stay on the Lakes, go deep sea, or something else. It does ease the transition to other Pilot careers, if that is a goal.
As to the work/life family balance, as mentioned in other comments, a strong partner is needed, and you/your family will need to come to terms with missing half of everythingā¦thatās part of being a mariner. But when you are home, you are HOMEā¦with no emails or calls from work.
It is humbling transition from a professional to a cadet, but well worth it if you love the water and want to spend half your life on it.
Really? Iām third generation (2 generations USMM- Third one- UK Merchant Navy). The First I sailed with for 7 years in the Liner Trades was 2nd generation (in fact he was through the Focāsle- his older brother KP- their Dad was a WW2 KP Grad). Another C/E I relieved was second generation- both C/Eās, and I can easily recount a few more people I sailed with (including one who I sailed as a 1st with and his son was my 2nd and 3 years later) who were 2nd and 3rd generation US Merchant Mariners.
While I will somewhat agree that times have changed- and that the demographics with respect to age has not improved- the average sea-going career of the Academy Grads averages about 5-7 years- with most under 6.
I am extremely proud of the seagoing heritage in my family-which dates back to the 1920ās in the USMM and even before that in the UK MN. My Dad and 4 Uncles were WW2 Merchant Mariners. A Brother In Law who graduated Calhoun in 1970. And last but not least, my wife- an Unlimited Master (with time) who graduated from KP who also has an Admiralty Law degreeā¦
No, the younger generation doesnāt bode well with long periods away from home, isolation or lack of social interaction with family and friendsā¦ We of the older generations did adjust to these things- and in fact flourished. This is not the case today.
The adage about the farm boys and shade tree mechanics and sons of fishmongers and Pilots going to sea enmasse is also off the markā¦ More often than not its kids looking for a quick buck and the skills to bring ashore and get away from shipping as soon as practical. But (as we used to say in the 1980ās in Diego Garcia) thatās the way the āLagoon Turnsāā¦
What are your kids up to, I didnt see you mention them? Did they carry on the family tradion? It looks like youāve been shoreside for a decade and a half at this point, and as I said, kids of the office folk are one of the exceptions Iāve met. Ive sailed with plenty of folks who had kids, and Ive met only one whoās son is sailing. More often than not it sounds like their kids want nothing to do with them. (Again, the exception being fishing families, and pilots, not saying its common, im saying thats the only time you see it). What Iām getting at is its incredibly rare, compared to a lot of other professions.
The fact of the matter itās not the merchant marine of the 1980ās anymore, I know this because I hear the old timers bitch about it constantly. Its not that one generation is tougher and can adapt better than another, its that shipping is regulated into high heavens, and the money isnt there anymore. I cant do a line of coke to wake myself up for watch, and have my nightcap to help me fall asleep. There are no boats full of women climbing the pilot ladder as soon as we drop anchor. We can hardly do the job weāre supposed to do because of policy and procedures.
Mostly we just do paperwork and hope we get a releif. I have on average 25 pages of paperwork to generate per dock that includes 3 redundant checklists. No one reads any of it. 90% of the time there is no shore leave because the goverment or terminal makes it impossible to get to the gate, or by the time you get to the gate you have about 20 minutes till you have to be back. If you make it to walmart and back, thereās a good chance the gate guard will assume youāre the #1 threat to national security. The only real life line anymore is internet. We must imagine Sisyphus is happy or else it gets depressing fast.
All for what? I can make a jump shoreside with no real financial impact up until the C/M level. Even then, households survive on less than a C/M or Masterās pay. Im doing fine for myself with 2/M pay, i will do fine making the same pay shoreside. There is even more wiggle room in a dual income household.
Thats the real reason, the money just isnt here for what weāre doing.
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2nd generation Mariner here 
My dad sailed in the 80ās, and he has no concept of how shipping is today. He doesnāt understand whatās materially different. I think if he had been a lifelong sailor he would not have directed me to this career. When he was sailing it was fun, and Iāve heard that from so many older guys out there. The problem is theyāre so institutionalized that they could never go work a shore job unless it was Port Engineer and thatās a pay cut they donāt want.
I worked at one company where I asked the captain why we had so much redundant paper work for arrivals/departures and the response was āthereās a guy in the office who has to justify his existence so he creates different paperwork. There are other people in the office who want to feel important so they get copies of all this paperwork even though they donāt need it and it means fuck all to themā
This is the biggest thing that I donāt think the older generation (my dadās generation) doesnāt understand. Iād call him from exotic locales (Oman but Iām just on the bridge on the mid watch) and heād be confused why I wasnāt going out to enjoy the city? Or why I couldnāt find someone to cover my watch for a night? I couldnāt even begin to explain that those days are long, long gone. If I asked the Captain or CM to cover my watch I think theyād use the duty weapon to just execute me for asking such a stupid question.
The next generation in our family became a computer engineer and the other physicist/mathematician. Youāre inaccurate regarding my seagoing and shoreside times;
1976-1998 (about 17 years actual sea time) shoreside as an engineering type manager 1998-2010, then back to sea from 2010 until 2020 (about 6 years sea time). This time I have been ashore about 4 years- so my experience at sea is still fairly recent.
Recently I often looked forward to hitting port in places like Antwerp, Southampton and etc- but to be honest- unless we had a schedule adjustment- there was never enough time to get ashore for a decent meal- never mind the proverbial socializingā¦ Shopping in Southampton was one me and my familyās favorite place to get goodies to bring back home- more often than note- just didnāt have the time to do it. Bunkers immediately after FWE in Antwerp- often at least one piston to re-ring or renew, repairs in Bremerhavenā¦
The current overregulation of our industry is just another shift in prioritiesā¦ The next will be āgreen initiativesā which will be nearly impossible to achieveā¦
Thank you for such an in depth response! Iāve been struggling picking between academies, and this really helped.
Iām mainly familiar with Great Lakes maritime culture, and it is a really unique niche. I love it, but Iām also curious about other ways of life.
The Pilotage component was just a bullet point before I made this post. Now Iām realizing how big of an incentive it is given my specific goals and interests.
I appreciate the insight. Being 1st generation Iām mainly leaning on advice from internet strangers, so getting so much help is much appreciated.
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In fact if I am not mistaken, getting GL pilotage at GLMA is mandatory regardless if you intned ot sail GL or not as it is tied to the MARAD/ DOT funding the GLMA receives, they must produce pilotage endorsements as part of the subsidy agreement.
GLMA is required to get sea time on the Lakes, but no MARAD requirement for cadets to get pilotage. See 46 CFR 310.3(c)(1). See also 46 CFR 10.307(b)(3).
It would be foolish to go to GLMA and not get pilotage. The Lakes and River Pilot classes are more difficult than the USCG Pilot exams, and are GLMAās most difficult classes. You have to pass them to graduate and it is the primary focus of the Academy. Iāve only heard of one person that did not get pilotage and he/she never sailed on a license. If you manage to pass the classes, the exams are a no brainer. It is not difficult to pass ONE of the USCG Lakes pilot exams. Getting all of them takes a couple attempts for all but 2 people since '84.
When I was there they wouldnāt let the deckies leave without it. It was so emphasized that as an engine cadet the guys in charge would be constantly asking me if I was studying my pilotage enough just in case I mightāve been a deckie with the wrong tag on my shirt.