It would be a vessel Not Under Command. It’s not underway and making way. Right?
They are still making way and steering. Technically they are sailing, albeit without a sail. Though a power driven vessel encountering them probably wouldn’t be able to tell.
I don’t see no motorin’ cone! Nothing says a sail must be a textile product (think of the America’s Cup boats with a rigid wing); in a way bare poles is just an extreme edge case. In contrast I’m assuming a Flettner ship would still count as a power vessel, since their rotors are turning.
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The question was " If you have a sail-and-oar boat underway at full speed without sails or oars, is she a sailboat or a boat under oars?"
There is no mention of exceptional circumstances.
In accordance with Rule 3 (f) the term “vessel not under command” means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to maneuver as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.
Exceptional circumstances are described as steering gear failure, engine failure, electrical supply system failure, fire, flooding, uncontrollable cargo shifting and stability issue.
I would agree and say that a sail-and-oar boat sailing under barepole is a sailboat. The one boat we have that excels at this will happily sail and steer to nearly a beam reach in a strong wind with no sail up. The only thing it won’t do under barepole is tack. But since sail-and-oar boats are notoriously bad at tacking anyway, the difference in sailing under sail or under barepole is only one of degree.
But then there is the situation when the crew will put the sail out in a light breeze to give them an extra half knot while they row. Sailboat or row boat?
In the end, I think the COLREGS ignore oared boats because they travel so slowly they are at a relative stand still to everything around them (excepting racing shells).
Exactly.
but they are not ignored in the COLREGS they are addressed in Rule 25 ( if I have that right ) , but they are ignored in the stearing and sailing rules - at least as far as I can tell. So we have a vessel ( as described in the rules ) that the rules addresses as far as lights to show, yet omits in steering an sailing rules - I don’t like the answer, because they are slow or unable to manuver - the rules can, and could address this -
Do we think this omission is intentional ?? If so not sure why they would.
Goodness I love this esoteric rules stuff way too much for a guy who hasn’t stood a watch in 20 years.
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An interesting question, because when the old Rules of the Road the COLREGs were based on were evolving there were lots of sail-and-and oar boats involved in commerce, filling the same roles as skiffs and ribs today.
Learned some of that the hard way as a wee lad. My brother and I were young lads and a bit bored anchored over in Engineer’s Cove, the fun was over on the other side of the C&D Canal where there was a restaurant that served ice cream. We decided to row across and get some desert, so off we went and quickly discovered that we were rowing at about a 45 degree angle to our COG due to the current really ripping through. Then a tanker comes around the corner, sees the kids rowing across right in front of him, and lays on the horn.
Rowing faster actually didn’t do much to improve the situation, but eventually I figured out to forget about arriving at the dock and turned down-current and scooted over to the other side.
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What about a jet engine powered boat? Should that count as Sail because it’s using air to propel it, albeit compressed air.
Every jet boat I have ever been on used a water jet.
Are you talking about airboats from Florida that use airplane engines and props? They are still powerboats.
- not a sailboat
Oh yea I wasn’t talking about Jetboats. But hypothetical boats propelled by an aircraft jet engine. Airboats like you pictured would be the same thing though, it’s air that is pushing the boat by creating your own wind.
Jet engine powered boats aren’t hypothetical:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ym_qJpLldFw
This is a good article on how the minutiae of the COLREGS developed over the years from the time it was based solely on the rank of the respective commanding officers.
"Accordingly, the ship with the senior officer was the privileged vessel. The Lord High Admiral of the Royal Navy, the Earl of Warwick, immortalized his tenure in British Naval lore by issuing in 1645 the following order: “No captain shall take the wind of an admiral.”
https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1955/november/twenty-five-hundred-years-rules-road
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Last I looked most ports ban paddling
Baltimore has a kayak club and I see them out on occasion, so not all do. I never heard of them trying to claim they are stand-on over a ship, so maybe self-preservation has solved that issue.
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I disagree. “Vessel Under Oars” is driven neither by Sail or by Machinery.
My own sea kayak (17 feet) is on the UK register (SSR) as “vessel under oars” and propelled by hand. The Registry have no problem with that. Usual signage rules apply to a kayak as to any other vessel.
kayaks are at the bottom of the pecking order and generally have to stay out of the way of all others. This is no problem as this is craft can use water so shallow it is not required by any other boat. On open water passages great regard needs to be paid to AIS and one’s planning will avail of the good offices of Coast Guard. Our local Belfast UK HMCG are invaluable friends. They are always willing to assist by alerting vessels in the vicinity that a slow dark craft is operating nearby. Good VHF coverage exists in our area which helps keep all parties in touch.
As regard kayaks as Stand On party. I think its been well said on this forum that self preservation persuades us not to push our luck/ stand too firm on our pint sized dignity.
Good relations with local ferries, charter fishers and dive boats helps a lot. Making intentions very clear is essential . Those guys need to know in good time that you are yielding or stopping by a change in one’s direction and the paddles held up clearly above the head. It definitely pays to wait until the way is quite clear - good manners and working to the spirit of the rules promotes a happy waterfront.
Indeed, and you need to show lights/day shapes. This is not NUC.
Last I looked paddling is banned in the Port of London
I wonder if paddling and oars are defined?
I haven’t heard of a port in the USA where rowing/paddling is banned. Certainly in Salish Sea ports on both sides of the border you find kayaks and SUPs everywhere. I am mildly shocked to find there are people who don’t know what a SUP is, because they are a bane of professional mariners in the Seattle area particularly in summer around the Locks.
I’ve seen people rowing on the Thames in London. A simple internet search shows plenty of people using kayaks in London. So not sure what you mean here.
People kayak in New York harbour. Is it the smartest thing, no. Is it annoying, yes. Do they risk getting run over by tug and ferry traffic, absolutely. BUT as annoying and dumb as I might think they are, I stand by their right to do so. It’s a public waterway.
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