Normand is here …
[QUOTE=catherder;103679]I thought Sea Star got into deep shit with their price fixing deal? I saw one of their steamers parked in Baltimore a month ago.[/QUOTE]
“El Faro” is still sitting over at Port Covington and is slated to be towed away for scrapping.
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;103640]Of course the gulf is the one shining example we have that we can be proud of, but it’s the unlimited, transoceanic, deep water, blue water fleet that is shriveling up and dying a painful death.[/QUOTE]
It’s over Paddy, there is no longer a U. S. Merchant Marine unless one buys into the equation that Off Shore and Brown Water count. I don’t.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;103699]It’s over Paddy, there is no longer a U. S. Merchant Marine unless one buys into the equation that Off Shore and Brown Water count. I don’t.[/QUOTE]
I guess it’s a good thing I went 1600-ton instead of Unlimited at Maine.
[QUOTE=Sweat-n-Grease;103699]It’s over Paddy, there is no longer a U. S. Merchant Marine unless one buys into the equation that Off Shore and Brown Water count. I don’t.[/QUOTE]
Delta (my first ship), American Export, Moore-McCormack, Prudential, States, Farrell, US Lines, Luckenbach, Alcoa, Isthmian, Calmar, States Marine, SeaLand…(feel free to add your own)
That, was the Merchant Marine.
What do we have left?
APL, Matson, Horizon, Sea Scab, Tote… some coastwise tankers…sad when you think about it.
One mega container ship carries more than a whole fleet of “romance run” 1960’s ships. That is why the whole industry is down. In China they have 6 cranes working the ships in Xiamen and Yantian. We were in and out so fast so they could do it all over again when we left. Maersk has a giant Med hub in Morocco at some godforsaken desert shit hole for its containers heading in either direction. That is what we have to compete against
I always laugh when in movies like “Hudson Hawk” they say things like “God, I miss the old days of the Cold War when the enemy had a face and a name and there were always plenty of communists around to be killed!” but now I find myself thinking things like that in terms of the merchant marine. God, I miss the old days when the enemy had a face and a name, we were needed to keep food on Britain’s tables, and there were plenty of Nazis around to be killed!
[QUOTE=capnfab;103701]Delta (my first ship), American Export, Moore-McCormack, Prudential, States, Farrell, US Lines, Luckenbach, Alcoa, Isthmian, Calmar, States Marine, SeaLand…(feel free to add your own)
That, was the Merchant Marine.
What do we have left?
APL, Matson, Horizon, Sea Scab, Tote… some coastwise tankers…sad when you think about it.[/QUOTE]
Sad indeed ~
Once we were Giants ~
Two Ships and an Academy ~
The painting of the United States Lines, SS [I]America[/I], was replaced a few years later, when I was a Cadet, with what we see today in Philadelphia.
Gone With The Wind ~
Let her die an Honorable Death, something a few of us understand.
Thank you, Sir, for your thread, few on the forum may understand.
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[QUOTE=Too bad steam is gone;103706]One mega container ship carries more than a whole fleet of “romance run” 1960’s ships. That is why the whole industry is down. In China they have 6 cranes working the ships in Xiamen and Yantian. We were in and out so fast so they could do it all over again when we left. Maersk has a giant Med hub in Morocco at some godforsaken desert shit hole for its containers heading in either direction. That is what we have to compete against[/QUOTE]
Oh Goodie ~
Free Enterprise ~
Eat your shit in China ~
That is a fucked up thing to say. So now every guy who has put his time in on a tug, ferry, crew boat, supply boat is not a merchant seaman. The US Merchant Marine only consists of deep draft ocean going vessels? If you don’t work on one of these ships it doesn’t count? Really?!?!
Kings point had waiters on the messdeck?
[QUOTE=capnfab;103701]Delta (my first ship), American Export, Moore-McCormack, Prudential, States, Farrell, US Lines, Luckenbach, Alcoa, Isthmian, Calmar, States Marine, SeaLand…(feel free to add your own)
That, was the Merchant Marine.
What do we have left?
APL, Matson, Horizon, Sea Scab, Tote… some coastwise tankers…sad when you think about it.[/QUOTE]
being a part time maritime historian, I have complied the following list of the once great post WWII US Merchant Marine steamship lines which I present here in no particular order
Grace Lines
Prudential Lines
United States Lines
American Export Lines
Isbrandtsen Lines
Moore McCormick SS Co.
Delta Lines
Lykes Brothers SS Co.
Alcoa SS Co.
American President Lines
States SS Co.
States Marine Corp.
American Mail Lines
Luckenbach SS Co.
American President Lines
Waterman SS Co.
Farrell Lines
American South African SS Co.
Isthmian SS Co.
Alaska SS Co.
American Hawaiian SS Co,
SeaTrain Lines
Sealand Lines
Calmar SS Co.
Panama SS Co.
Northland Transportation Co.
Pacific Far East Lines
Gulf and South America Line
Banner Lines
Central Gulf Lines
United Fruit Co,
Matson Navigation Co,
Navareas Puerto Rico Lines
Robin Lines
a megalist of all the now long dead and buried US flag steamship companies can be found here
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;103716]That is a fucked up thing to say. So now every guy who has put his time in on a tug, ferry, crew boat, supply boat is not a merchant seaman. The US Merchant Marine only consists of deep draft ocean going vessels? If you don’t work on one of these ships it doesn’t count? Really?!?![/QUOTE]
Well that’s how I think about it, doesn’t mean you have to. Hell, call yourselves outer space thing-a-ma-jigs, what does it matter.
Look, it’s late, I got a full belly of good food and whiskey in me, just came inside after shooting-off a few rounds from my 12 gage to scoot-off a pack of pesky coyotes.
Good night ~
I strongly encourage anyone with access to a store that sells or can get old movies to look up a 1943 British film called “The Shipbuilders.” It is essentially a war-time propaganda film but I feel that the point it made then strikes home even stronger today. It is the story of a courageous man who owns a dying shipyard in the UK in the 1930’s. All the other shipyards around him are closing, laying off their workers, and selling their equipment to Germany and Japan, who for some mysterious reason are seeing a rise in the productivity of their industries… Meanwhile, he fights the good fight and goes to any lengths necessary to keep his doors open because he knows better than to trust the Krauts and Japs by selling them his shipyard. When the war starts he’s the only one not standing around with nothing but his johnson in his hands.
Productive shipyards and the things that they produce are an asset that we as a nation cannot afford to lose. We can pine over the loss of a great industry, or we can search for ways to fix it. I know as well as anyone else that the deep sea merchant marine is dead, but its carcass is still warm and I’m all ready to get the AED warmed up. There’s hope yet. So what about the shipyards? What needs to be fixed?
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;103731]All the other shipyards around him are closing, laying off their workers, and selling their equipment to Germany and Japan, who for some mysterious reason are seeing a rise in the productivity of their industries… Meanwhile, he fights the good fight and goes to any lengths necessary to keep his doors open because he knows better than to trust the Krauts and Japs by selling them his shipyard. When the war starts he’s the only one not standing around with nothing but his johnson in his hands.
Productive shipyards and the things that they produce are an asset that we as a nation cannot afford to lose. We can pine over the loss of a great industry, or we can search for ways to fix it. I know as well as anyone else that the deep sea merchant marine is dead, but its carcass is still warm and I’m all ready to get the AED warmed up. There’s hope yet. So what about the shipyards? What needs to be fixed?[/QUOTE]
When the US entered WWII, we were in a point in our history where we had the production resources to build the necessary war equipment to fight the war and win.
Could we do it today, with our loss of manufacturing base? I’m concerned that we couldn’t. It is in our own self interest to keep certain industries going in this country.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;103716]That is a fucked up thing to say. So now every guy who has put his time in on a tug, ferry, crew boat, supply boat is not a merchant seaman. The US Merchant Marine only consists of deep draft ocean going vessels? If you don’t work on one of these ships it doesn’t count? Really?!?![/QUOTE]
Would you consider a yacht captain or crew member to be a merchant seaman? There are yachts bigger than supply boats and these super yachts call on ports all over the world. So is the yacht captain more of a merchant seaman than the supply boat captain that goes in and out of maybe two ports and never over 200 miles in his/her entire career? Are either of these"merchant seamen" in the traditional sense of the word? The same question can be asked of the drill ship folks who never move over a few miles except for once every 5 years to go to a shipyard. Are they merchant seamen in the traditional sense of the word? In my mind, no.
[QUOTE=z-drive;103723]Kings point had waiters on the messdeck?[/QUOTE]
They were 4th Classmen (Cadets in their first year at KP) known as Plebes.
I have to agree with you somewhat on these points. well for the most part. I wouldn’t consider commercial fishermen merchant seamen either.
Good info about the Merchant Marine, and in particular, the U. S. Merchant Marine:
[QUOTE=tengineer;103748]Would you consider a yacht captain or crew member to be a merchant seaman? There are yachts bigger than supply boats and these super yachts call on ports all over the world. So is the yacht captain more of a merchant seaman than the supply boat captain that goes in and out of maybe two ports and never over 200 miles in his/her entire career? Are either of these"merchant seamen" in the traditional sense of the word? The same question can be asked of the drill ship folks who never move over a few miles except for once every 5 years to go to a shipyard. Are they merchant seamen in the traditional sense of the word? In my mind, no.[/QUOTE]
Merchant seaman is a vague term. Deep Sea, Oil Field, Great Lakes, Passenger service…can all fall under that definition.
Yachts are personal vessels and are not engaged in merchant service. The same vessel engaged in passenger service would be a commercial vessel and the crew merchant seaman.
As far as tradition goes, coastal trade has always been considered merchant service. Crew of larger vessels had more bragging rights.
I give my respect based on the complexity of the trade, not the size of the machine or time between ports.