I mean yeah I’ve done South west pass to Tampa early in my career and those chief mates I sailed with were cooked after a month. But in the grand scheme of MMP, the APL run has to be the worst for chief mates. Maybe the pax or goodwill comes close but those are for different reasons. If you can sail on a container ship then Matson, Pasha, or Maersk would be the first choices before APL.
When the MFOW stops checking reefers at sea (contractual duty) maybe, maybe it (CM EX1 run) will be slightly comparable to being MLL CM on a K-Class/S-class on the MECL run (MMP or AMO) There’s simply no comparison otherwise. The MLL G class are tough during European loop, but the N Sea pilot and generally speaking lower reefer volumes make it a good bit easier than MECL.
MLL CM: standing 2 nav watches every day, planning and carrying out drills/training, doing MLL idiotic OT entries in payroll line by line, PM and requisition entries, tracking and ensuring SOLAS/FF inspections are up to date, doling out jobs to deck gang, various EMBARC frivolities , ballasting/deballasting, tank inspections,STCW planning, VGP paperwork, AND checking anywhere from 50-500 reefers by yourself daily at sea. Somebody who is struggling as a box boat CM anywhere that has MFOW checking reefers daily won’t last long at MLL unless they adapt quickly. MLL USA port calls are much shorter than APL’s in LA/OAK and with longer river/harbor transits and more of them. Don’t get me wrong, that simply is the job as CM at MLL/USMM/Sea Land. It’s been a very consistent set of daily tasks for the CM for at least 20yrs.
I don’t believe checking reefers on E-ships is CM job, because of old NMU contract language for electrician, but I could be wrong.
In the last 10yrs at MLL the only thing that’s gotten easier, IMO, for CM is the install of BWTS. Cut out nearly all the crazy mid ocean BW exchange done between Algeciras and Port Elizabeth.
The hectic nature of the Asia loop on EX1 for the whole ship is really only Busan/ 2 Chinese ports/ Busan. That is only about 5-7 days if things go as scheduled….. out of a 49 day service. For the most part, the rest of its gravy.
MFOW isn’t on these new ships it’s SIU.
Been a minute since I worked E-Ships, but the electro was doing the reefer rounds when I was there. They also get Coastwise 3rd Mate in the states which is a big help to the CM.
Yes, but has that actually happened yet???
Even if/when it does happen, MLL MECL run still harder on CM let alone the whole crew than APL EX1, which is not what ‘new’ APL ships will be on. This post was in context of Eterrible3 talking about run on which extra 3/m was removed and CM went back to watchstander. That was on the EX1 run and GSX run. Until new APL USEC/armpit of the world service is established and it becomes known what CM workload is like with SIU, it’s irrelevant and not an apples to apples comparison.
I opine that it is specific segments of the industry/fleets (as noted above) that imply a shortage. Certainly on the Lakes there is a shortage of qualified mate/pilots. I can’t speak for the inland/river side of things, but it seems that job-specific qualifications (or willingness to endure BS) are causing the issue.
Most lines up here are short of what they need for mates and engineers. Ratings are another issue; good people are hard to find. Going overdue is no fun for anyone, but the $ to effort ratio has to make sense or good people will go elsewhere, regardless if it is deepsea or another segment of the industry.
Exactly, and add the two together and you have very specific “shortages” for very specific areas of the industry. Possibly a lack of people with experience or specific skills.
But far from an industry “shortage” for sure.
???
I think that was his point…
Most Chief mates don’t need reliefs because there are two permanents. There isn’t a lack of cm maybe when there is an occasional relief job there is a struggle to find a cm but there isn’t a shortage of people with licenses.
Only time I saw that was when no one had LMSR certs or when SLNC had open jobs for their death traps.
MSC is a train wreck! My son got offered a position as an OS. I wanted him to get his AB ticket on his own before working with me on the dredges, and I thought it would be good experience for a young guy to travel. 5 MONTHS LATER they were still dicking him around with paperwork and background checks etc, etc. We called and I inquired that you had to have a background check to get a TWIC, why isn’t that applicable? Finally I said “screw this, these people are a joke”, and asked the office to bring him on as an OS (took less than a week to onboard him). More money and a stable career path. I honestly don’t know how MSC hires anyone.
I had heard from old timers who worked for them in the 1970s that it was a horror show full of misfits even back then, so I don’t know if it was ever a solid outfit with zero tolerance for the kind of violence and insubordination I’m hearing about aboard their ships now. Honestly, I don’t think their leadership has the balls, ability or capability to do anything about it anyway.
Exactly, no one that’s any good and has other options would put up with the MSC hiring process.
Life at MSC certainly sounds horrible.
I can see why some people might put up with MSC for a couple of years.
For example: an Academy kid might go through most of the MSC hiring process while he’s still in school. Then by sailing 12 months straight move up to Second Mate and Master 1600.
After that he could look at going to the union hall, drilling, OSVs, ATBs, ferries, tugs or whatever and working six months a year. In two years (or with 12 hour days, less) he could get a license as Chief Mate (it might be with or without a tonnage limit).
This. It was always more or less about rapid advancement. Some would say “bro, I made six figures right outta school!!”
Which seemed great until they realized they were working longer and much harder to reach the same outcome the rest of us did in just one hitch — and damn near 100% of the time that wasn’t by choice. They sat out there so long cause they couldn’t get relieved… as MSC’s APMCs are managed by total retards.
This sounds horrific haha what are the chief mates getting paid there?
Did you even read that article?