I agree that it’s better to hire within. Hiring a master from outside causes subtle long-term problems that are not seen or understood by shore-side management.
It depends upon the complexity of the operation as you say but hiring from the outside decreases the level of expertise or know-how aboard the vessel. In the case of the crew running into technical problems the mate is not able to get assistance from the captain.
A second problem is that the captain is not motivated to keep an eye on operations as he doesn’t understand what he is seeing when he is walking around. So there is a tendency for him to become a “stateroom” captain.
A third issue is a decline in the level of trust and moral aboard the vessel. It may not seem to effect day to day operations in a simple, routine operations but it will decrease the level of the crew response more complex situations or in emergencies.
Shore side management has a disconnect and or disregard for such things. your second problem can be quite the opposite effect, Master walks around and doesn’t understand what he see’s but is so arrogant he thinks he can run the show, only to cause catastrophic events, I have personally seen that happen.
I worked for a company with half a dozen of the same (more or less) type ships. One ship was on a very easy, routine run, the others were always getting hammered, high-tempo, difficult situations, changing schedules etc.
The difficult ship/runs had a very high turnover of chief mates, more problems, more screw-ups. The easy ship had low turnover and relatively low drama, few problems.
As a consequence almost all the mates that got promoted to master came up on the easy ship and transfered over to the difficult ones…
Pointing this out to shore-side was a big factor in how I managed to get promoted to master.
Wondering what everyone’s experience is with having someone move up like this on the same vessel they had been working on.
Let’s take the example here where the guy/gal had been on deck with a license gets promoted to the bridge. Now he/she is in a supervisory position over the same people they had been working with previously. Is it a good practice to be promoted on the same vessel? Or is it better to be moved to a new vessel in a higher position.
In my career, I have seen people promoted from within rather that bringing in someone from the outside. Several times, this allowed someone to move up because it was perceived as “Their Turn” rather than who was more suitable for the position.
In my years of sailing I have seen this happen quite a few times and sometimes it worked out other times not so much. Too many times, I have seen someone moved up to a higher spot only because they have (a) the proper paperwork and (b) they have been there longer. To me I would much rather have a person that knows how to do the job and can do it rather that moving someone up that still needs to be trained.
When, it comes to anything like this, when someone is hired from outside (or even from a different company vessel) it causes a lot of grief from those that thought they should have got the bump up. To be honest, I have been on both sides of this and have been to one brought in from the outside and also been the one pissed because I didn’t get the spot.
This is a situation where no one is ever going to be happy.
This is a very good point, I’ve caused my office a little bit (ok, a lot) of frustration with a couple cases like this. Moving from a rating to a License position… not a good idea to do that on the same boat. I’ve gotten good response from the actual guys moving up once I explain why i don’t think it’s a good move, but boy the office fights that one tooth and nail sometimes.
3rd Mate to 2nd Mate to Ch Mate, I don’t think that has as much effect in most cases, and can be done on the same ship. But Chief Mate to Captain I feel requires a change of vessels to keep issues from arising.
I’ve known of people who moved up from OS to Captain all on the same boat. I have a hard time considering anyone a “master” mariner when they’ve only ever worked for one company on one boat. They have no experience with different operations, different Captain’s ways of doing things, etc. It’s bad enough people spend their whole careers in Port Fourchon but consider themselves and ocean-going master, they need to get experience on other boats and with a wide variety of Captain’s and Chief Mates.
How about upgrades from 3/M to Unlimited master 1 company 1 boat and staying in the same block…
I do not want to squash anybody good fortune, if their lucky enough to be on the “fast track” but you gotta wonder about where this profession is going when a licensed master mariner has never tied up a ship before, completed voyages with distances greater then 10 miles, transited a traffic separation scheme, in a high traffic areas, and yet qualify for unlimited sea going licenses.
I wonder if personal event logs could be started where you have to have a certain amount of trips on restricted waters, trips in congested waters, etc, all signed off by the master.
This is where the lifelong mud boat guys whine and ask if you’ve ever been to Fourchon?
Fourchon is fine and dandy for traffic, but it’s “organized chaos.” Try a fleet of squid boats off Korea with arc lights and they’re wearing welding goggles and can’t even see your tanker trying to safely navigate through that mess at a slow bell. Or a fleet of fishing canoes off West Africa just hoping you swamp one so they can get a big pay out from your company.
I was promoted on a vessel that I had worked from OS up to holding my 2nd Mate and 1,600 Master. I worked on that vessel for a little over 6 years I believe and when I upgraded to mate, I was quickly moved to the bridge. I experienced no real issues in the transition, the guys that I worked with knew me well. One thing that I think really was a benefit is that they were comfortable calling me out if I was being “that guy”.
I think this made it to where I was able to see my flaws pretty quickly and improve upon them. Anytime you work with friends, they are quick to let you know when you are either being out of line or just not making sense. I saw this as a huge advantage to have a crew who could help me build into being a decent Mate.
I have not worked on a huge array of vessels, only a couple OSV’s (a couple CP and a couple Z drive) and then I worked for a short time on a subsea construction vessel. I do not run around acting like I am some captain of captains, though I have met many who are quite proud of themselves in the industry. I always try to have a very firm grasp on my current capabilities with the knowledge that with a little time, I can pick up almost anything. I do want to work overseas, yet have not made it past the gulf yet.
Any Captain, new hire or not, who makes special arrangements to get his own people aboard – he or she probably has personality issues or weaknesses (or is lazy) and needs props. The props are people he “trusts” which in all likelihood means he needs certain people who will prop him (her) up. The lazy Captain relies on his former shipmates to do work he doesn’t want to do, or the former shipmates have skills he doesn’t – you get the picture.
Every good captain has to vet his subordinates. Bringing in “friends” is a short-circuit of his/her duties and responsibilities.
Yes, you see it all the time, all around you. Doesn’t make it right.
Bullshit. I’m gonna sound like a real asshole here, but “friendship” stops at the gangway. If you can’t do the job, then you need to have your bags packed, and being a “friend” isn’t going to mean shit to me. The problem is that there’s no real power to fire in the Master’s hands in a lot of companies these days. The incompetents just get shuffled off to a different boat and become someone else’s problem. This is a big part of the reason for deck stacking for some Captains. I’m sorry, I still think being able to pick your Chief Engineer is perfectly acceptable though.
I don’t see how that is being an asshole at all. The captain obligation is to the owner not his friends. An obligation to the owner means the best interests of the ship. Looking out for your friends is a betrayal of the obligation to the ship.
As far as the senior officers there are two requirements, that they be technically competent and that they are able to work as a team.
Now I find that most people who meet those two requirements are very often pleasant to sail with. I enjoy having a meal or a cup of coffee with the chief or mate and sharing a good laugh or a sea story but if they can’t take care of business I don’t want them on the ship.