Yes, it was the Navasota ~0100 Subic. Ship was supposed to be laid up and nothing was being repaired, however, it was kept for a couple more years. I was aboard 6 days, 3 A/E first lic. watch ever, fireman had been pulled out of rack as other guy had walked. Boiler alarms inoperative- a week or two Capt. & Cheng had each sent “personal for” msgs. to Commadore complaining and stating there was going to be a fire and Capt was walking if not relieved. At MSCAPC Port Eng. (RIP 2021) called me into his cubicle and asked me to look at crew list- after he saw my jaw drop, he whispered that the Port Cheng was stashing all his misfits on one ship, so he knew where they were. At that time fireman made less than messman. Initially went with Cheng from his office to engineroom to investigate the “boiler casualty problem” and casually opened WTD off messdeck and flames blasted out at us, so had to enter at lower level.
Fireman had changed out to larger burners twice without telling 3 A/E, who was in the separate but connected engineroom showing a new unlic. engineer around. During the fire I checked the sight glass and it had water in it, and without using much force I could not move the valve in either direction. Had I not looked at the sight glass I would not have understood what the fireman, who could barely speak English, meant when he kept saying “two nuts, two nuts” Sight glass status never made it into official report.
I was CargoMate on Passumpsic for 8 months in 1983.
The ONLY places I’ve found info on this amazing “hydrogen fire” is on gcaptain forum, the “derp” report listed above, and a few other idiot maritime article written by some ignorant non-abet know all SeaScientist brother of mr SeaLawyer that never even took high school chemistry for the “average” (read low IQ) students. Search “hydrogen fire” without EGB, or marine stack and all you will find is information about pure hydrogen explosions/fires.
Because life at sea follows a completely different law of physics than idiots ashore, one can easily understand why this “hydrogen fire” only exists in the confines of a stack fire. derp.
Excerpt of special physics that only in the maritime universe.
Types of Exhaust Gas / Soot fire in the Exhaust Gas Boiler (EGB)
For a better understanding, it is better to distinguish the EGB fire in stages rather than in types. EGB fires can be differentiated in two or three stages depending upon the intensity of the fire.
Stage 1: Normal Soot fire
Stage 2: Hydrogen Fire
Stage 3: Iron Fire
Stage 1: Normal Soot Fire:
Soot is deposited in the water tube of the exhaust boiler. When the ship is at slow speed, the exhaust temperature of the main engine may vary from 100 to 200 deg C. This temperature is enough to ignite “wet soot” whose ignition temperature is around 150 deg. C.
If the soot is “dry”, it will not get ignited at such low temperature (150 deg. C) but when the engine is running at higher speed and the temperature of gases reaches to above 300 deg. C, then in the presence of excess oxygen the deposits of combustible materials will liberate sufficient vapor, which can be ignited by a spark or a flame.
The above soot fires are called small or normal soot fire because the heat energy is conducted away by the circulating boiler water and steam. Also, the sparks remain inside the funnel or diminish while passing through the flame arrestor in the funnel top.
Stage 2: Hydrogen Fire
Hydrogen fire in an EGB occurs when the chemical reaction of dissociation of water takes place at a temperature above 1000 deg. C. This leads to the formation of Hydrogen (H2) and Carbon mono-oxide (CO) which are both combustible in nature.
**> ** > 2H2O= 2H2 + O2 (Dissociation of water Leading to formation of hydrogen-H2)
**> ** > H 2 O + C =H 2 + CO (Reaction of water with carbon deposit leading to formation of carbon monoxide-CO)
Stage 3: Iron Fire
At this stage, the chain reaction of oxidation of iron metal starts at a high temperature of 1100 deg. C which means at such high temperature the tube will start burning itself, leading to complete meltdown of tube stacks.
2Fe + O2 2=FeO+ heat
It is strictly advised not to use water or steam at this stage to fight the fire because the overheated iron will react with water to continue this reaction.
I initially was not going bother getting pulled back into this conversation., but since you asked in reference to the D7 incident I referenced… I can only say, I read the report subsequent to the fire written by those that investigated it. The C/E that was onboard got bumped back down to 1st for several years because of his actions. He blew tubes which turned the fire into a conflagration. I don’t recall if the circ pump was off or turned off.
I have no doubt that occurred in conjunction with the hydrogen fire. But I would think if it were strictly a metal fire cooling it below the ignition temperature would allow it to be extinguished easier. If hydrogen is involved, it is much more difficult to fight.
Maybe you are the type who has to see to believe and for your sake I hope you never get that opportunity. Or not do something stupid to make it worse.
What are the chances that the engineers at MAN B&W don’t understand thermodynamics? Seems very unlikely. .
These hydrogen and iron fires occur in low-speed diesel engines equipped with economizers (EGB) run for long periods at low loads. That describes low-speed engines used in the marine sector.
How many people outside the marine sector have experience with that?
Water breaking down to hydrogen and subsequent “hydrogen fire” is not thermodynamics. With that said, water + iron + very high temperatures exist in many other industries, and not a single one speaks of this hydrogen fire claim some EGB twit put out. If it were true, every tube leak in a boiler would cause an explosion. Actually, there is one industry where water makes boom in a boiler…the paper industry. Recovery (black liquor) boilers tend to go boom with tube leaks, but that’s a different mechanism.
I guess because one person wrote it in a book, it must be true. How come you can only find 2 to 3 articles talking about “hydrogen fires” and every single one is regarding EGB? Is this because EGB are super special and follow different rules from Mother Nature?
Your Man bw pdf said h2o turns to h2 and o2, but it just has an arrow and forgets the massive amount of energy required for that reaction. Derp.
Yep, that’s the bottom line. It takes more energy to disassociate H2 and O2 than will be produced when they recombine. Bottom bottom line is that the infinitesimally small amount of H2 produced actually cools the reaction.
Except in the exhaust stacks of MAN powered ships.
Yes, I pretty much figured out that we sailed together- Quigley was the Capt, Jack Price the C/E when I was on the Passumpsic- Fontana and then Solomon was the Firsts. . Chuck Anti and the “Toothpick Charlie” Clarke were my watch partners- as you recall there were two 3rd’s on watch at sea, one in the ER and one in the FR.
One of my favorite sea stories that was actual was something that happened in Subic in early 84- we were all restricted from getting relieved because of an upcoming INSURV bullshit. Solomon was the 1st. The Port High Sea Suction had a leaking bonnet- and “Solly” was hell bent to get it repaired- we were afloat. Anti and I begged Solly to reconsider- without success.
I was “a negative influence” so Solly reassigned me to repacking one of the recip Standby Lube Oil Pumps and took Anti and an Eng Utility (Hopkins) to “tackle” the sea valve. Needless to say- when Solly slacked the bonnet- all hell broke loose. He wanted Hopkins to stand on the valve wheel to staunch the sea water flow- water spraying everywhere. Anti ran up to get another tool and Solly starts screaming- “Anti, Anti, Help Me We’re sinking” !!! .
Needless to say, I ran over and we managed to get the bonnet back down and reduced to a dribble… For weeks afterward Hopkins would cat call Solly when he was in the engine room- “Help Me, We’re Sinking” !!! Ah, the good old days.
Some of the comments on the OICEW thread speak about “practical experience”- they should try one of these mornings… BTW- Stay Safe Shipmate.
Post Script- some of the Port Engrs I remember were Kenison, Fritz, Dave Van Zandt (really liked Dave- excellent engineer), some of the other Engrs were “Animal Andy”- 2nd, Nick Sieswerda, “Hoyt”, Niel Canafax, got on in July 83 and got relieved March 84…
Not too much info in how you handled the situation but if the fire is out and no one hurt then you’re good. Company hindsight is always 20/20, and it will always occur. During any incident fall back on your training and remain calm. If able document your actions.
We would have been together for 8 months on Passumpsic. I knew most of the people you mentioned quite well and had at last one beer with most of them. Solly and I did not get along well, not in a hostile way, but more in me always laughing at him. Chuck Anti left ship without returning my jacket. I recall Chuck and and a bunch of us being in a club in Hong Kong where Chuck and some Engs. Broke out their credit cards (not used much at the time) and ran up some large charges. I think Steve Newbury 3 A/E was there and he just recently passed. Long stories but lots of Passumpsic Deja vu in last few months: Capt. Quigley’s daughter born about 1984 contacted me looking for pictures. Chuck’s kind of girlfriend in Sasebo was just asking about him, she had a crush on him but Chuck had a crush on a girl PI, she was intelligent and pretty and her niece was Miss Universe Japan- I would have married her given the chance.
No it is not. First law says what goes in must come out. Second law says energy has different levels of quality, and much like this discussion, much of it is low quality and useless.
More most likely is someone at MAN B&W made a mistake and published gibberish (again, find me one other publication of such “hydrogen-fire” outside the MAN B&W EGB stack fire). If what they published is true, they would have discovered the solution to all our energy problems. Get a fire going to 1000C and spray water on it…you now have MOAR Fire! Who needs electric cars and bird killing wind turbines? I got hydrogen-fire!
Steve passed away? Oh No- another old sailing buddy. RIP- sailed with him three times… Last time was on the Ponchatoula when “Nosepick” Karbaat beat him out for the Eng Day 2nd Job. I relieved Mike Miller on the Ponch as Cargo 2nd…Oh wow about Steve Newbury- he wasn’t 63 even…
This conversation became WAY more interesting than I expected. I knew putting water down a hot stack could cause a thermal explosion but never thought the water would turn to fuel!
Thank you all for your good input. I’ve learned quite a bit.
I didn’t give details because I didn’t want to direct the conversation. This stack fire was pretty tame compared to some. It’s the fourth one I’ve experienced, and it’s one I drill for.
I was dockside at night and on generator on a 100’ boat with only myself on board when I heard a small muffled explosion and the generator exhaust started blowing hot gasses and showering the decks with embers. It wasn’t the usual “few sparks out the exhaust” - it looked more like a small volcano. I was concerned about lines and deck gear igniting. I made a couple phone calls for help and then charged a hose and kept the decks and stack housing wet until someone else was there. Then I went and checked the engine room, which was fine. I kept the generator running so the exhaust flow would keep the fire from spreading down to the equipment. I’ve always been told that’s the best course of action, and it hasn’t failed me yet. The one mistake I feel I made was that I didn’t start the other generator and transfer power, in case the affected genset became involved. By the time the shoreside fire dept. arrived it had pretty much burned itself out.
My first stack fire was on a ship at sea, so this time was pretty low-stress, knowing I could just step onto shore if things got out of control. The only thing that made it a little more worrisome was this time I was the one responsible for the boat.
