Claim and counter-claim, as can be expected:
This is pretty normal for ships on “European Watches”
Unfortunately this is incredibly convoluted to explain on paper, but it makes 12x12 an easier transition than 8x4 to 6x6
Who know what it’s called elsewhere in the world, but here we go
00:00-06:00 - 2/M on watch - all else sleep
06:00-08:00 - CM/on Wach, 2/M Lunch & OT
08:00-10:00 - 2/M On watch, C/M OT
10:00-12:00 - 3/M On watch, 2/M and C/M on OT.
12:00-18:00 - C/M On watch, 3/M Does 4 hours OT
18:00 - 00:00 3/M on watch.
The 2/M is only up Midnight to noon, C/M is awake during daylight, and 3/M get screwed with 2 hours to take a break in the afternoon, and only getting a 10 hour nap as opposed to the 12 hour nap everyone else gets. Jump to 12x12 is easy, the 2/M doesn’t need to change his work day, and the 3/M gets to sleep in two hours before being up till midnight.
Why was the 3/M up and on deck at 09:47? Only the crew knows. Maybe the 3/M and C/M were switched.
All I know is I wish I could convince every old timer in America that this is infinitely better than 4x8/6x6.
I will never understand Americans . Neither Young nor Old. Your software is even more complicated then Chinese.
If they have 2 3M’s then one would be up. I’m fairly certain a lot of those TSP ships have 2 3Ms.
I think we are overthinking the route the ship took. Probably more to do with maintaining phone and TV signal onboard than anything else I reckon.
Very Possible, but @spowiednick did spot an article with where the they only had one of each. I have no idea.
I’m going off of what I’ve hear it called. @Meme.Lord does a good job breaking down what the actual work schedule is for the deck officers.
Apparently your working schedule above is not bad and seems quite good.
So taking into account the logic contained there in and the fact there were 4 mates including ch mate and 2x 3 M would You agree their presumed wtch schedule could have looked like below???
Will revert regarding the picture in the morning.
But 2nd mate schedule looks like shit. There are different regimes. STCW regime, MLC rules, and I believe OPA rules. According to which regime/rules is the original schedule???
Actually i have decided to continue regading the picture You mentioned..
I put the picture/edited in response to a comment given by some dude claiming cognizance of US flag tanker system. Well I am not from Missouri but I am a " show me guy" and examination of his record here would take me too much time. So I doubted his credibility and googled a bit.
Here is a link : Photo: Stena Immaculate reflagged into U.S. registry - American Maritime Officers
The text says among other things :
blah blah blah… American Maritime Officers members working aboard the Stena Immaculate in August, here passing through the Suez Canal, included Cadet Aiden Vanderwall, Chief Mate Daniel McCullough, Third Mate Benjamin Ackerman, Second Mate Adam Durrua and Captain Scott Anderson. END QUOTE.
I think it would be very impolite and rather insulting not to mention by the author , the other member of AMO in this great succes . What PR stunts are for by the way??
For example ; he /she was making the photo or was on watch or that the picture was done by Suez Canal pilot and another proud AMO member was resting after exhausting watch . Watever!!! What of course would alarm some inquisitive reader asking : who is keeping the watch in the Suez Canal during picture sessions.
For me such a picture with such comment is a prima facie evidence that at this particular time there was “THE MAGINFICENT FIVE” on board. But of course it is not conclusive evidence and i do hope some histerical idiots commenting with outrage and utter dusgust & disdain , like the bloke " @ retard " or sth like that, distinguish between the two.
I’m gonna go on a limb here and say there was definitely either (2) 3Ms or (2) 2Ms.
Man, I couldn’t imagine being a watch-standing CM; I think I would retire.
Gulag Archipelago , Siberian labour camp .
Don’t knock it until you’ve tried it.
I preferred the first 3M watch on that diagram, as that was usually the 2M watch, as long as the 3Ms were competent enough. If not, the 2M got the midnight watch so the Captain could sleep in peace.
Oh my goodness, its my favorite. By the time anyone wakes up to bother me the day is half over. Eat lunch and everyhing else is someone else’s problem, take a full nap. Good way to spend 3 months.
This has been discussed here before: Alternative Watch Schedule or European Watch Schedule
Otherwise not relevant, the interim report establishes the 2nd mate had the anchor watch at the time.
I’ll do the Monday-morning-Quarterback spiel, and perhaps some of you old timers can comment.
Setting:
m/t “Stella Immaculate” at anchor. Early morning. Heavy fog. Visibility about 1 cable.
m/v “Solong” bearing onto the m/t “Stella Immaculate” at about 16½ knots. The OOW is not the Master, is the 2nd Officer.
The OOW notices a distant vessel approaching at a brisk pace. At about 3 Nm distance there is an unusual lack of change in the approaching vessel’s heading. A rapid CPA calculation results 0 Nm in about 3 minutes.
What could the OOW, and separately, should, have done?
———————
I’ll start this off with the following proposition:
A.
P.A.:
OOW announces emergency: “Possible imminent collision”, “All crew to emergency stations”, “Master to bridge”, “Engineers prepare for emergency maneuver in 2 minutes”, “Bo’s’un and 3 deck hands to Fo’c’sle”. “3rd Officer prepare for fire-fighting”, Cook & Steward prepare free-fall lifeboat”. “All crew to wear life-vests”. “O.S. (name) to the bridge”
OOW: sounds Fog Horn. Turns on all deck lights.
Intercom, Bridge to Engine Room
- OOW: Inform how soon we can start engines to move the ship.
Intercom, Engine Room to Bridge:
- We can make emergency maneuver in “X” minutes.
Master reaches bridge.
OOW informs Master of imminent collision, recommends swinging the vessel using the anchor as pivot point, and RUDDER HARD TO PORT, SLOW AHEAD.
———————
At this point the Master takes over.
———————
Would the aforementioned actions by the OOW have been adequate, bad, good?
Please comment or criticize based on the above premise and what is known about the vessel.
Every time someone one talks about what the 2nd Mate could have done on the Stena Immaculate, It sounds like it’s coming from someone who has not been a junior officer on anchor watch in a long time.
The only think I think the 2nd officer should have done differently, would be to call the other vessel. If I called to start up the plant every time we were 10 minutes (3nm) from 0nm CPA, I would get an evaluation saying I am not a confident watch stander and asked not to come back. Obviously, no captain is going to leave their ass out in the open and tell a junior officer not to call, but if you’re the one who can’t sleep from midnight till noon because the 2nd mate keeps calling you, tell me with a straight face that you’re not going to form certain opinions about them. Again, if you were the one navigating in an anchorage, you would plan your maneuver assuming the anchored vessels are stationary, because that’s what anchored vessels are.
I think the crew of the Stena ship did what would be expected, which is reacting to an emergency.
I understand, we aren’t the judges who will be preceding over the case, but I think the Russian Captain who is in fact in jail is going to catch most of the heat on this one.
It’s a lot more than 3 minutes.
Dear Alias @Rickster
Why are You coming so late with this question??
There were other threads on the issue which were very quickly closed by the gCaptain government and I still do not understand why .
If You read them, you surely would find the following :
and in above thread there were some other inputs reflecting my opinion and speculations. Likewise there were many other very interesting comments provided by other knowledgable participants.
My questions " what would you do ?" was completely ignored and it was declared as :
I am not sure why it is impossible to answer or to elaborate on " what would you do?" question. It is more easy and I think fair instead of iffing or saying what "they " should do having the hindsight.
Nobody bothered to give it a try since March 19-22 nd and why? I do not know.
And yet there were some in this thread like @Ladder who hinted something very obvious and rather logical and even obligatory :
and He mentioned it before " what would you do ?" project of mine.
I have clipped Solong data sheet below with some very important detail which i will use to reply to somebody, who needed ALL 38 DAYS since March 19th to finally admit something what He/She obstinately ignored in what seems “patriotic” zeal and passion.
My congratulations . If this is taking such a long time to think , then it’s better for some to call the master SOONER then LATER by application of slow thinker factor. Upon reflection it seems that my standard night order " call me before shit happens" gets a new important meaning in relation to this particular case.
Who else in this noble congregation of old salts and young pistols knew what to do???
Reading relevant posts here is an absolutely exciting experience as it is a proverbial gold mine of ideas and opinions. I simply love it as You never know where the EUREKA moment will hit You .
Well, the person who did not participate at all in this discussion on Stena misfortune was nobody else but his Excellency Owner of gCaptain and supporter /activist of US Merchant Marine his majesty Capt. John Konrad .
And i have opened on purpose and with deliberation a thread with his grand speech and vocal performance which is here:
Regret to say it got a whooping 113 views and ZERO comments as nobody dared to challenge His Majesty on his story.
But I found it unbelievable, that among the crowds of experts here only Capt John Konrad knows what is ITU booklet and what it contains and how it can be used especially that nowadays, it is available in electronic format at least in pdf. And this booklet i had on all my ships, it is available in Owners/Managers offices and especially it is available in all shore side institutions like coastguards , pilot officess , VTSes , Harbour Masters, and others dealing with ships traffic and traffic safety in their area of responsibility what has been confirmed by the initial MAIB report.
I think all who care to read my input can already sense the direction of my drift.
Now to your spiel. There is no “it fits all” recipe in this case and writting a procedure for this case which supposedly could have prevented the collision is a fallacy without knowing all the facts.
We do not know what Stena crew did prior the event .The only thing that was revealed was that 2nd off took watch at midnight what does not clearly indicate if He/She was on the bridge at kaboom moment and what He/She was doing there prior kaboom.
May be He called Solong ??? I do not know .
But seeing the media reaction and reporting and glorification of Stena actions after collision one would expect that " mayday relay" call recording would be accompanied by frantic Stena VHF calls on Ch 16 and other, trying to allert the incoming vessel of an impending danger. It would surely boost the public opinion view of the professioinalism of Stena crew regarding watch keeping and application of so called due diligence while doing it.
Same with the getting M/E ready. We do not know what was the state of readiness of the plant. Could be the standard 60 minutes , could be half an hour , could be 15-20 minutes depending on the circumstances. In some cases it can be immediately available . Such conditions have been described in another thread .
W/O M/E one can release more shackles but we do not know how many were out at kaboom moment and prior. So one can speculate ad noseam . Trust the investigation will reveal all facts and answer all questions.
On the hook your options are very limited and even if done may be ineffective or even exacerbate the situation as there is a risk the bandit will wake up on the bridge and yell " Blatz or yob tvoyu Matz" and turn in the heat of the moment in the wrong direction.
Sounding signals as per regs is a good option re due diligence and my favourite option would be to call them . Why I will explain later . THE QUESTION IS WHEN ?? and this is another debatable item.
Surely by calling the bandit You will not wake up and upset the US Master who as per one crown witness here is getting 30 grand per month by sleeping 12 hrs per day.
So my Dear . Read ALL the posts/threads and attachments/links with good info in it and give them the spiel like they have never heard in their life
In addition I have inserted here the clip with my interrogation of AI. All very valuable and recommended.
The problem I have with AI in this clip is the " give way vessel" but all knowing AI seems to know better or got a shitty teacher.
Trust i did my best in exhausting not only You but all others scrolling on their screens my blah blah.
Sorry.
Cheers.
PS. And by the way. While visitng all US coasts and ports have noticed the most favourite sport of US navigators is calling each other to determine and clarify the safe passage condition.
Wonder why this interesting habit was forgotten in Stena case( if of course they did not call out)
What I’ve heard called the “Infantrymen’s answer” would work here.
"Sir! It depends upon the terrain and the situation sir!
Anyone that wants to play coulda shoulda woulda can have at it, everyone’s hindsight is 20/20.
I’d be interested in the SMS wrt the situation, captain’s standing orders and the like. Beyond that it just basic good seamanship.
Some platforms in the UK sector use this REWS (Radar Early Warning system) from Ultra Electronics for collision avoidance, it is a passive alarm based system.
Ships at anchor should be using a system like that to alert them of dangerous targets, it is not realistic to expect the OOW to continually monitor the radar if at anchor for long periods of time, they will get distracted by something.
Control room operators on rigs are busy with lots of other jobs such as permit control and other operational things so don’t have time to continually monitor radars, so this passive alarm based system works well for them.
…. Like ARPA?
Control room operators aren’t mates. I’ve never met anyone who uses them but guard zones still exist. You don’t need a ton of fancy equipment to stand an anchor watch, particularly one that will likely only last a day or two at most.