you are changing the subject
if you cant speak and read English how do you operate an international vessel?
Same for aircraft
how can you learn when all your documentation is in English?
My comment wasnt about the DP course it was the pathetic skills of the supposed licensed crew that come for DP courses.
All the instructors in Asia talk about it especially about the crew from Indonesia
none, only English as you are required to have that skill for STCW-95
I did hear Navis made one in characters to get some sales in China?
No Iâm not. I just brought some facts into the discussion.
I just pointed out that your statement:
Is not correct. Standard Maritime English (Google it) is thought as a subject. It is required by STCW. The national language is used as the medium of Maritime Education, howeverâŚ
That doesnât mean that the students donât know English from their earlier education and from watching endless supplies of old American sitcoms in their spare time.
That can be said for many students, of different nationalities and in many fields of study,
BTW: Donât confuse DPO training and certification with IMO mandated STCW standard education. Not even the DPO Course Instructors has to have valid STCWâ10 credentials, nor do they have to be fluent in English. (The Oxford, American or Aussie variety of it)
No you didnât. You bring that up regularly, especially when you post something that is BS.
BTW; There is a lot of thing that âShould Beâ, but isnât. (In my opinion)
What âShould Beâ is also very much dependent on your point of view and what you have been brought up to believe.
Some learn to question things that âeverybody knowâ, or is the âpolitical correctâ way of thinking as they get older, others not.
Thanks heaven the world has still got space for people that think differently, eat differently and speak differently.
Some companies require people to score above a certain percentage on the âmarlins english testâ.
But Iâve worked with some people who have scored above 90% on that test and can hardly speak a word of English. There are allegedly corrupt test centers who will help you pass the exam and the answers to these tests can be found on the internet.
I worked for a company who wanted me to sit the Marlinâs ASK exam (Assessment of Seafarer Knowledge), using a search engine I found someone in Russia selling the answers to the exam, I didnât pay for the answers just saw someone was selling them.
The fact that there has to be an ASK test shows that a certificate of competency from certain countries must almost be worthless, thanks to STCW people from countries with worthless CoCs can easily get a CeC from most other countries.
I am not, you need some basic skills that people with STCW-95 qualifications are expected to have, it is very obvious in a DP course those that dont have any basics.
Even more obvious when you have an electrician or others in a course and they have more seamanship knowledge than the mariners that are on the same course.
fake tickets
so we had 2 old 2nd mates back to back on ahts, nice guys clearly had years of sea time but they just didnt have the skills they should, several of us sent emails back to the office especially after I found one updating the magenta part on a chart with a black biro telling me thats ok I use my pen because its black.
The other guy couldnt transpose a rumb line between charts of a different scale.
So the office goes to their authority and asks and sure enough they have legit tickets, so we so go back and ask how they got themâŚ
The flag state says sorry we have no records prior to the conversion to stcw-95âŚoh boy, there must be millions out there that converted a fake to a real
Seafarers certification going totally digital will hopefully all but put a stop to fake tickets, unless they find a clever way of compromising databases and adding fake information, which will probably be very difficult.
Was this recently? Before STCW was implemented there were quite a bit of false certificates floating around. Some were held by older guys that had the experience, but didnât feel like going back to school to upgrade.
There were also some *young punks" that thought they were so smart that they could get away with it.They were easy to spot and usually got weeded out quickly. (Some by the Darwin method)
There are already Certification Verification services available:
http://www.imo.org/en/OurWork/HumanElement/TrainingCertification/Pages/CertificateVerification.aspx
It probably doesnât do much good if the certificate is legal, but issued on illegal premises:
But you are right, all electronic Maritime Credentials and Vessel Certification, which is on itâs way, will probably close the opportunities for falsification.
To stop issuance of credentials and seatime verification based on corruption is going to be harder to stop.
PS> It is not only happening in so called âsh*tholeâ contries, as attested in several posts in this forum.
was about 8 years ago but the issue was the conversion, the flag state allowed massive corruption so lots of fake tickets became real when the world converted to stcw-95.
Not having any records prior to conversion is the problem
I found the industry calls themâ Permanent 2nd Matesâ as they dont have enough skills to ever sit an exam so thats where they will stay.
Plenty of Engineers the same in Asia too
Itâs not necessarily that it is under foreign flags, but it is the US shipbuilding requirement that is impeding the US merchant mariner.
We as a society have accepted foreign competiton in air/car/train building (I drive a Japanese car, fly on an Airbus aircraft, ride on Siemens trains) why canât the US accept that a ship built in Europe or Japan would be beneficial to US commerce? European/Japanese/Korean made ships are in service the world over without ill effect.
perhaps they should look at allowing foreign built ships in with taxes to ensure US shipbuilding can sustain itself?
Air force buys Airbusâs doesnt it?
Youâll have to add Chinese built ships to that list today. Lots of the ships calling at US ports are built in China. Here is the ranking in 2018:
New orders in Q1 of 2020 confirms Chinaâs position as the worldâs premium shipbuilding nation:
https://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/s-korea-ranks-2nd-in-q1-shipbuilding-orders/
Europe is no longer competitive in building of large tankers, bulkers, LNG carriers and Container ships, but holds its own in Cruise ships, small and specialised vessels.
Europe is still a major supplier of designs, machinery and equipment, however. (Incl. to US shipyards)
PS> Quite a lot of European designed ships are built outside Europe. Machinery and equipment of European design are frequently actually made in China or Korea, either in factories owned by European companies, (fully or jointly) or on license.
They wanted to but Boeing nixed the program.
And pilots âŚ
Now that is scary but thatâs just the tip of the iceberg Iâm afraid.
The most scary part is that it happens in reputable airlines that is member of Star Alliance, together with the likes of SIA, Lufthansa, United, SAS etc.:
Will the introduction of Electronic Licenses in all major countries close the door on fake Maritime or Aviation licenses?
Doctors get away with it all the time, nobody ever checks like pilots
Pilots also scam hours and go from low hours FO on a type to big hours as Captain when they move airlines
SureâŚno one had ever hacked or entered fake info into a computer.
The problem is companies not vetting the holders of the license nor the issuers. The last bit of regulatory action that works are lawsuits that can bankrupt a company or financially punish a country that does not make sure they have the best qualified people piloting their ships and aircraft. As âtort reformâ progresses that will go away. When is the last time any company advertised,âWe hire only the best and pay whatever it takes to get them because truly, safety is our first consideration. We are proud to be the top paying employer in our industry.â