Jesus Christ I lie to the office all the time in the midst of a situation. To think they wouldn’t have or didn’t is ridiculous. Maybe they didn’t lie and in fact knew but who knows. Since its Star Wars time, think of when they’re dressed up as storm troopers on the Death Star in the prison area “…situation normal, all set ok”
Yes tote almost 100% knows more, but it’s entirely possible they don’t. Can’t believe there isn’t an inside source with this info.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;175999]Maybe the Master called and said:
“we don’t know why the plant went down yet. The engineers are checking into it. It might have something to do with lube oil failure but that is just speculation at this point. I’ll call you back when we know more.”
All companies put their survival and usually their profits ahead of safety. That is nothing new. Nor is it ever going to change.
Let wait for for the facts before we just assume TOTE’s guilt. Innocent until proven guilty.[/QUOTE]
On the other hand wouldn’t it be nice to hear Tote or anyone say "We run state of the art ships built by US workers in US shipyards. Our ships are inspected by the American Bureau of Shipping and the United States Coast Guard. We EXPECT these ship builders and those that regulate the ships to insure our mariners are safe. NOTHING we do in the construction or maintenance of our vessels is not approved by the United States government or highly respected classification organizations. We expect to hold all those responsible for making sure our mariners are safe accountable because WE are not ship builders OR regulators WE are just a corporation that exists solely to make money. We operated the El FARO for many years with approval from all regulatory agencies and we were doing so when she sunk.
[QUOTE=tengineer1;176002]On the other hand wouldn’t it be nice to hear Tote or anyone say "We run state of the art ships built by US workers in US shipyards. Our ships are inspected by the American Bureau of Shipping and the United States Coast Guard. We EXPECT these ship builders and those that regulate the ships to insure our mariners are safe. NOTHING we do in the construction or maintenance of our vessels is not approved by the United States government or highly respected classification organizations. We expect to hold all those responsible for making sure our mariners are safe accountable because WE are not ship builders OR regulators WE are just a corporation that exists solely to make money. We operated the El FARO for many years with approval from all regulatory agencies and we were doing so when she sunk.[/QUOTE]
While I do not have the document in front of me, your post reads a lot like Tote’s filing for Their Limit of Liability.
I firmly believe that Tote will use the “But the El Faro was inspected by the USCG and under Class with ABS” whenever anyone tries to bring up any mention of Unseaworthiness. With the Ship and All Hands being gone, there is NOTHING that can be said to rebut this, unless they find something in Tote’s Office.
One thing that I hope ALL U.S.Seafarers learn from this is how much (Or How Little) a Dead Seafarer is worth. Our lives are all but worthless but I do hope and pray that the Families of those Lost on the El Faro get a FAIR Settlement, which we all know will do nothing for their loss but hopefully it will be enough to take care of their Families.
[QUOTE=Tugs;176018]While I do not have the document in front of me, your post reads a lot like Tote’s filing for Their Limit of Liability.
I firmly believe that Tote will use the “But the El Faro was inspected by the USCG and under Class with ABS” whenever anyone tries to bring up any mention of Unseaworthiness. With the Ship and All Hands being gone, there is NOTHING that can be said to rebut this, unless they find something in Tote’s Office.
One thing that I hope ALL U.S.Seafarers learn from this is how much (Or How Little) a Dead Seafarer is worth. Our lives are all but worthless but I do hope and pray that the Families of those Lost on the El Faro get a FAIR Settlement, which we all know will do nothing for their loss but hopefully it will be enough to take care of their Families.[/QUOTE]
of course it’s what they said. It’s what “they” all say: “it meets USCG requirements.” How may times have we all heard the phrase: “it’s not required.” At most companies the regulatory minimum standards are the company standard.
[QUOTE=Tugs;176018]While I do not have the document in front of me, your post reads a lot like Tote’s filing for Their Limit of Liability.
I firmly believe that Tote will use the “But the El Faro was inspected by the USCG and under Class with ABS” whenever anyone tries to bring up any mention of Unseaworthiness. With the Ship and All Hands being gone, there is NOTHING that can be said to rebut this, unless they find something in Tote’s Office.[/QUOTE]
They call this regulatory capture.
[B]Regulatory capture is a form of political corruption that occurs when a [B]regulatory agency, created to act in the public interest, instead advances the commercial or political concerns of special interest groups that dominate the industry or sector it is charged with regulating.[/B][/B]
Regulatory capture runs rampant through out our modern overzealous regulatory nanny state.
If ever a regulator has been captured by a regulated industry, it the capture of the USCG by the OSV industry.
Of course, at the behest of the OSV industry and the tug and barge industry, Congress provides the USCG with plenty of funding for the war on drugs and mostly wasted pretenses of homeland security, but very little funding for vessel inspection. Admirals are made on drug busts, not fire safety regulations. Inspection, manning, and safety regulation have become the USCG’s unwanted red headed stepchildren.
[QUOTE=z-drive;176001]Jesus Christ I lie to the office all the time in the midst of a situation. To think they wouldn’t have or didn’t is ridiculous. Maybe they didn’t lie and in fact knew but who knows. Since its Star Wars time, think of when they’re dressed up as storm troopers on the Death Star in the prison area “…situation normal, all set ok”
Yes tote almost 100% knows more, but it’s entirely possible they don’t. Can’t believe there isn’t an inside source with this info.[/QUOTE]
Setting aside EL FARO & TOTE for a moment. Don’t lie to the office. We’ve got morons in there, but some have non-decision making positions. If they are morons and have decision making positions, hopefully we can weed 'em out. We need people on board that can be trusted.
Huh? Of course we lie to the office morons. They lie to their superiors who lie to the stockholders (or congressmen) who judge the company (or agency) on the value of their investment returns (or reelection contributions).
The minute everyone starts telling the truth is the minute the rest of us join our GoM brothers in the soup line.
they lie to us through their teeth, I just return the favor.
Let our thoughts during this time of the year be with the still grieving families of the unfortunate crew members who lost their lives out there. They will be missed more than ever during this for them difficult Christmas period in which families gather to celebrate. May our colleagues rest in peace.
Anyone care to name even a single safety improvement, innovation or regulation that wasn’t written in blood and tears? It’s never bee any other way, and never will.
There always has to be a crossing of some previously invisible carnage threshold before anything changes significantly, and sometimes that threshold is stunningly high. You have to just try your best not to become part of that body count.
[QUOTE=captjacksparrow;176126]Anyone care to name even a single safety improvement, innovation or regulation that wasn’t written in blood and tears? It’s never bee any other way, and never will.
There always has to be a crossing of some previously invisible carnage threshold before anything changes significantly, and sometimes that threshold is stunningly high. You have to just try your best not to become part of that body count.[/QUOTE]
[I]Give it time[/I]
[QUOTE=tugsailor;175999]Maybe the Master called and said:
“we don’t know why the plant went down yet. The engineers are checking into it. It might have something to do with lube oil failure but that is just speculation at this point. I’ll call you back when we know more.”
All companies put their survival and usually their profits ahead of safety. That is nothing new. Nor is it ever going to change.
Let wait for for the facts before we just assume TOTE’s guilt. Innocent until proven guilty.[/QUOTE]
I would never call the front office to tell them I had nothing to say. Odds are if the Master placed a call to the office he had information and the Chief right next to him to validate his suppositions to the V. P. of Engineering. The Chief and Master do not call the office without notes and a dry run quizzing each other in the questions, they think will be coming from the office. As many phone calls the Master had placed to TOTE over the years, I would guess that the Master would contact management after he had enough information for them to make a decision. Odds are the phone call was full of very useful information.
[QUOTE=Charlie Noble;176308]I would never call the front office to tell them I had nothing to say. Odds are if the Master placed a call to the office he had information and the Chief right next to him to validate his suppositions to the V. P. of Engineering. The Chief and Master do not call the office without notes and a dry run quizzing each other in the questions, they think will be coming from the office. As many phone calls the Master had placed to TOTE over the years, I would guess that the Master would contact management after he had enough information for them to make a decision. Odds are the phone call was full of very useful information.[/QUOTE]
I would call what we have already heard “a lot of useful information”: the ship is dead in the water, near the center of a hurricane, a hatch came open, there is some flooding and a large list, we have not been able to get the plant running yet, but we think the situation is manageable. No doubt there was a lot more detail than that. If there had been no hurricane, no doubt the master and chief would have rehearsed a dog and pony show for the office. I suspect they were too busy for that in this instance.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;176336]I would call what we have already heard “a lot of useful information”: the ship is dead in the water, near the center of a hurricane, a hatch came open, there is some flooding and a large list, we have not been able to get the plant running yet, but we think the situation is manageable. No doubt there was a lot more detail than that. If there had been no hurricane, no doubt the master and chief would have rehearsed a dog and pony show for the office. I suspect they were too busy for that in this instance.[/QUOTE]
I recall from early on a reference to a recorded line…Did anyone else get that reference?
[QUOTE=tugsailor;176336]I would call what we have already heard “a lot of useful information”: the ship is dead in the water, near the center of a hurricane, a hatch came open, there is some flooding and a large list, we have not been able to get the plant running yet, but we think the situation is manageable. No doubt there was a lot more detail than that. If there had been no hurricane, no doubt the master and chief would have rehearsed a dog and pony show for the office. I suspect they were too busy for that in this instance.[/QUOTE]
I should have been clearer with my response. The comment I was discussing was referring to the lube oil system being the reason the prop wasn’t turning. I should have stated that if this was true the Master and Chief definately would have discussed that casualty with management, IMHO. If this is the case there is yet to be released, some very interesting and picture completing information. I hope we are given access to that info.
Watch “60 Minutes” on Sunday 3rd.
http://wabi.tv/2015/12/31/search-for-el-faro-featured-on-60-minutes/
I wonder if there will be any new info to come out. The NTSB has gathered all this info I can’t believe some new revelation hasn’t been made public yet.
The riding gang. What company in Poland did they work for? Anyone know what kind of boiler work they were performing during the trip?
Maybe someone answered in the thread but I didn’t see it.
[QUOTE=catherder;176466]The riding gang. What company in Poland did they work for? Anyone know what kind of boiler work they were performing during the trip?
Maybe someone answered in the thread but I didn’t see it.[/QUOTE]
Tote said the riding gang was working on stuff related to the planned redeployment to Alaska. Given AIS information had the ship doing 20knots before propulsion was lost they were not running on 1 boiler.
I have had Polish riding gangs several times. Sometimes they were tank cleaners, once it was a crew of electricians pulling wire, and sometimes it was a mixed bag of machinists and welders but they were not doing any boiler work.
The point being having them aboard does not mean they were performing boiler repairs though this seems to keep coming up as the work they were doing.
The company they worked for was InTec Maritime Services.