come on now, no more spreading misinformation. don’t confuse a safe manning document (SMD) with a COI now. In some cases you go and get a voluntary SMD for an uninspected vessel when going foreign to keep the port inspectors from going batshit. And its usually confiscated by office at conclusion of the voyage!
Tugs under 300 tons are not inspected unless its an extremely unusual case, AND IF THEY ARE THEY AREN’T UN-INSPECTED TOWING VESSELS! THEY’RE CLASSED AS SOMETHING ELSE! THAT’S THE SAME AS HAVING AN REVOKED UN-REVOKED LICENSE! Doesn’t make much sense huh?
If they are over 300 and go outside then they’re inspected, but not as towing vessels. Typically they fall under Subchapter I…Motor seagoing vessels over 300 tons not carrying passengers or dangerous cargoes.
[QUOTE=z-drive;122012]come on now, no more spreading misinformation. don’t confuse a safe manning document (SMD) with a COI now. In some cases you go and get a voluntary SMD for an uninspected vessel when going foreign to keep the port inspectors from going batshit. And its usually confiscated by office at conclusion of the voyage!
Tugs under 300 tons are not inspected unless its an extremely unusual case, AND IF THEY ARE THEY AREN’T UN-INSPECTED TOWING VESSELS! THEY’RE CLASSED AS SOMETHING ELSE! THAT’S THE SAME AS HAVING AN REVOKED UN-REVOKED LICENSE! Doesn’t make much sense huh?
If they are over 300 and go outside then they’re inspected, but not as towing vessels. Typically they fall under Subchapter I…Motor seagoing vessels over 300 tons not carrying passengers or dangerous cargoes.[/QUOTE]
What’s the misinformation? If the tug is inspected, the manning is on the COI. I don’t know any conventional seagoing tugs under U.S. flag, over 300 tons still operating. I’ve seen a few inspected tugs. I never sailed on the ESTER or M MORAN as they were 333 contract but I believe they were the last inspected conventional tugs over 300 ton. Back then there was the 1000 ton freight and towing licenses to cover them. The engineers had the Motor Towing license. I have the last one issued. They were the last of the ‘essay’ exams.
My last few years sailing were on uninspected ATBs. The SMD was always on board and was checked by auditors regularly.
These are just escort tugs/harbor assist tugs and there is no manning cert. under 300 gross tons. We run day boats with 2 guys from time to time, not for escort I think the problem in CA is that if the escort is needed and it goes over 12hrs and you only have 1 deckhand you are kind of SOL
The misinformation is someone saying that a uninspected towing vessel with a COI exists! I was not disagreeing with you iniunear, but the other guy. If it has a COI and its a tug it’s not an uninspected vessel. If it has a COI and a tug and its over 300 tons it also normally will not be documented as a tug.
“Pretty sure all uninspired towing vessels have COI’s. I know ATB’s have them.” That’s what i call misinformation.
Manning on inland vessels not operating beyond 12 hours is specified in the CFR’s/msm and is damn minimal, agreed!
When I first started sailing SIU contracted tugs, we changed over from 4&8 to 6&6. In the contract we had a manning scale for the various tugs with “missing man pay” for the guys that covered the job of the missing man. We got overtime after 6 and out of department. The OS got overtime after 12. The capts and mates on voyages over 600 miles worked 3 watch and OT after 12. When the 36 in 72 hour rule came into being, our OT was snatched out of the contract. (Some of the guys with creative writing skills on the OT sheets contributed to this.)
My last 2 contracts were “day work” in unmanned engine rooms. The amount of hours I put in were illegal and complaints fell on deaf ears. I only stayed around for the 2 for 1 pension contributions. The younger guys left for the drill ships.
[QUOTE=acesouthcoast;121994]Pretty sure all uninspired towing vessels have COI’s. I know ATB’s have them. All the tugs at my company are inspected by ABS every five years.[/QUOTE]
Class (ABS) is completely separate from Flag State Inspectioned vessels. One would hope that you tugs were inspected annually, too. Now, ABS will also perform Load Line issuance and inspections, separate from Class surveys. There are a lot of tugs out there that are “Load Line Only”. This means that they are unclassed and subject to Annual Load Line Inspections and a renewal (including dry docking) every 5 years. If the vessel is Classed, dry docking would be required twice every 5 years.
For years and years our second officers (cruise ship) had to be up for 7:00 - 7:30 dockings on a cruise ship after getting off watch at 0400. Finally a port state control came onboard and asked to see time sheets. Presto - policy was changed in the Safety Management Manual and the second officer turned over the mooring responsibility to the bosun.
Change in this industry almost always comes from outside pressure or if you have a union.
Lots of great information on this thread. Apparently I need to stop smoking so much weed:).
I worked on some day boats in the northeast several years ago with 2 man crews. We would get busy and end up being awake for way longer than 12hrs. It would be great to see some legislation thy would get rid of that unsafe type of work.
Doesn’t make much sense huh?