I see it about the same way Steamer does. US mariners and marine industry benefit a great deal form yachting.
For example, MPT is one of the biggest and best training schools for existing professional mariners in the US, and one of the very few schools that reliably runs just about every USCG and MCA approved course at least once a month at mid-range cost in a pleasant place to spend a week or two. How do they do it? Most of their many students come from yachts. I’m glad that the yachting industry made that school (and others) possible for all of us to use.
I think that some types of yachting experience (such as racing sailboats) is very valuable, while some yachting experience many not be worth so much. I’m glad that many mariners leave commercial vessels to go yachting. Also, I know quite a few of yacht captains that got their 3rd Mate’s license at an academy. I wouldn’t want a career in yachting, but I do enjoy dabbling in it occasionally.
If a man with a lot of experience and ability, like c.captain, wants to look down his nose at yachting experience, he is certainly entitled to his well informed opinion — although I respectfully disagree. However, I doubt whether most young men in school, or recently graduated, are in a position to be particularly well informed on the subject.
[QUOTE=PaddyWest2012;127298]Well I don’t know about anger and resentment but I do know that no one else in this conversation has resorted to calling people ignorant twits instead of just having a conversation about the topics at hand.[/QUOTE]
That was “envy” and resentment, not anger … and, I didn’t call you ignorant until you proved your ignorance of the subject matter. Go back and read the posts before claiming some kind of moral high ground. As for the rest of it, I just call 'em as I see 'em.
anna Hoppy Knoo Yeres to ewe too dare steamier my frend…
hoap ewe got yore sparklers anna udder firewerks redie to tring in 2014 Bayoo style
I gots my brown partie licker all redie
Later, after the hangover wears off I’ll go back to fomenting revolt against our capitalist pig oppressors but tonight is a night to just drink heavily!
Now regarding yacht mariners getting big tonnage licenses I would only hope the companies would look at the “experience” and toss out the so called “professionals”. A mega yacht master may have a serious job but it is not the same job as a large OSV master or an ATB master. Let them be a lowly mate along with the fresh fish from the academies and prove their worth before any shot at glory and the big money. At least that makes a level playing field protecting those who have been on workboats their whole careers from the interlopers wanting to inject themselves into what is now a serious contender for best place to work in the industry.[/QUOTE]
Actually, most if not all the yachties with unlimited licenses were deep sea commercial before “jumping” to yachting. Is it possible to get an unlimited license based on small yacht service? Naaaaahhhh, least near as I can tell. They will be stuck with low tonnage.
However, coming TO yachting from commercial, it appears a doubling or tripling of wages may be sufficient motivation to accept the downgrade in title from Lord to mere yachtie. Just sayin cuz I see it.
But we digress. A small yacht captain going to an OSV as captain is not a good professional fit and is probably very, very rare. If a yacht experienced fellow is coming over to the Patch, sure, let him work up, learn what is going on and advance when merited. Who the heck are you to indicate jobs are reserved for a special knighted few? Give me a break. Inject themselves? At what point did you inject yourself into the offshore business? Big deal.
The experience of larger charter yacht or 6000 GRT gigayacht run with +40 crew compared to DSV / OSV is likely more relevant, but in truth no one is making that jump, because it definitely means a huge pay cut, worse working conditions, giving up couch auditions and the company Audi.
And again, the value is entirely in the man, not the title or place. Near as I can tell, boats still float and the Sea doesn’t grant exceptions for any man or any boat.
I wonder who the commercial ship owner employs on his megayacht?
Commercial ticket holder or a yacht guy?
( actaully I know as I have worked in both)
PS if you don’t like yacht guys getting sea time how the hell can you support seatime on a modu?
[QUOTE=c.captain;127313]anna Hoppy Knoo Yeres to ewe too dare steamier my frend…
hoap ewe got yore sparklers anna udder firewerks redie to tring in 2014 Bayoo style
I gots my brown partie licker all redie
Later, after the hangover wears off I’ll go back to fomenting revolt against our capitalist pig oppressors but tonight is a night to just drink heavily![/QUOTE]
I can say that the grass is not always greener and the crap is brown on both sides. For awhile I sold small boats and sold an 18’ I/O ski boat to a “1600 ton” captain in his mid 30’s who worked in the GOM. I trained him on the boat and although the guy knew his nav aids, docking/handling and general boat knowledge was no where to be found. I’m sure he did his job well as a captain in the patch but he scared the crap out of me knowing he was out there running that boat at more then 12 knots. I’ve also meet 1st captains who couldn’t even tie a bowline without muttering something about a rabbit, tree and hole. There are good and bad every where and I wouldn’t put one above the other. Each is unique and requires a much different overall skill set, with the obvious overlaps.
Edit - just wanted to add that there are plenty of worthless, wanna be’s on the rec side as well and certainly wasn’t defending them.
I would put naval combat ships at the top. You not only have to be able to sail them safely but you have to be able to fight them and operate aircraft off most of them. The amount and complexity of the weapons and sensors demand skill above and beyond those required for safe and efficient navigation and engineering, though those two count in spades. You have to be able to operate a plot and engage in precise station keeping and formation maneuvers. Civil mariners do not do this. You have to be able to operate the ship while thinking tactically, maybe even engage in some tactical deception, and be able to know what your sensors are telling you while choosing the right weapon(s) for the situation. Naval vessels don’t get harbor pilots in my experience either. The navigation team has to figure foreign ports out for themselves, and the captain takes full responsibility.
I would also put yachts directly under cruise ships because the larger yachts will visit ports all over the world. No matter what you might think of the owners, the people operating the ship have to be able to get a frigate sized vessel into unfamiliar ports in places that don’t speak their language and do so without scuffing up the pretty megabuck paint job. There is skill required even if all you are doing is hauling some rich people and their pets around.
I would put Reseach and NOAA vessels higher because some require very precise navigation and position holding, handle some expensive and specialized submersibles, and on occasion can come into conflict with Chinese “fishing vessels” depending on where you are sailing and what certain people in Beijing think you are up to (Bottom mapping their continental shelf? Oh, say it ain’t so!)
Trust me, naval combat ships should not be at the top of your food chain. Safe and efficient navigation? Station keeping, formation maneuvers, and tactical deception? Try MSC civilian mariners for a far better example. Naval vessels don’t get harbor pilots? Believe me, that is totally false.
Agree with your comments on Research/NOAA and mega-yachts.
I’m devastated, devastated I say, that you (perhaps at the behest of c.captain?) put Paul Watson at the bottom of the list. He should not even qualify to make the list.
[QUOTE=Flyer69;127449]This “caste system” discussion comes off as an exercise in auto-fellation. [/QUOTE]
Hey, we all try to do what we are good at.
Flyer, you DO realize the caste systems list was put together on New Years Eve and is about as serious as the frequent “Which Maritime Academy is best” list? You DO get that don’t you?
[QUOTE=c.captain;127432]believe me, when the c.captain is in Amsterdam the last thing he’s doin is hanging out in coffee shops even if they serve awesome hot smoking Joe![/QUOTE]
I hear there is some great window shopping in that town.
