Open America's Water Act - POLL

I will apologize ahead of time for my potential ignorance, but please hear me out.

As a current resident of Hawaii and a former resident of Alaska, the Jones Act is part of my every day life. Nearly everything I buy gets shipped in. This gets very expensive, especially in Alaska. Also, as someone who has, for some time now, been considering entering the cargo shipping industry, the Jones Act has made it nearly impossible. The cost of buying a US-built ship is staggering to say the least. I would be very keen on buying a used one, but most of the US-built ships are used by the companies who buy them new until scrapping. In the mainland US to Alaska/Hawaii trade there are just a couple of companies (Totem, Horizon, etc) who operate, thus creating a monopoly. I don’t have the money to purchase a new, US-built ship at the cost of well over $80 million, when I can buy a 10 - 15 year old, German or Japanese vessel of equal capacity and quality for less than $10 million. If I were able to buy a used, foreign vessel, flag it under the US, meet all USCG standards, hire American mariners, supply jobs to US port workers, what is the problem? Simply that I am not helping out the US shipbuilding industry? I’m not sure if everyone is aware, but that industry hasn’t exactly been performing too well over the past few decades (excluding small-scale yacht manufacturers). So, after all of this, I reach the conclusion that it is easier for me run the ship that I purchase internationally (probably Asia to US). Now, I have just eliminated the need for American mariners on my ship. I don’t have the same USCG regulations. I am importing foreign goods to the US rather than potentially transporting American-made cargo to Alaska/Hawaii. I could elaborate on this all evening long, but I won’t. While I am not in support of a full repeal of the Merchant Marine Act of 1920 aka the Jones Act (You do realize that 1920 was 90 years ago, right? You know, when America had manufacturing supremacy, not Asia.), I certainly feel that this Act has done more to harm the average American (including modern Merchant Mariners, believe it or not) than most of you realize.

That said, if the Jones Act were simply amended to allow the use of foreign-built vessels for coastal trade, I would bet the farm that the US Merchant Mariner would have a resurgence and the citizens of Alaska and Hawaii would enjoy goods at a more reasonable cost. Call me crazy, but these are just the thoughts of one simple man.

What can the honorable senator possibly know about the Merchant Mariner and the Jones Act coming from a damn land locked state. Being a Navy Pilot does not make you a Sailor!!! Maybe he should actually speak with some of the people he is going to effect the most. What is gonna happen when all of these good paying jobs are lost to mariners who don’t have to pay Federal Income Tax? What is gonna be stimulated then? I hope Arizona realizes it is finally time for him to be retired. We can only hope!!

[I]“As a current resident of Hawaii and a former resident of Alaska, the Jones Act is part of my every day life. Nearly everything I buy gets shipped in. This gets very expensive, especially in Alaska.”[/I]

So maybe they should grow timber in Hawaii and build cars in Alaska? How about putting in a steel mill on Maui? Maybe Alaskans need to grow their own pineapples?

[I]“Also, as someone who has, for some time now, been considering entering the cargo shipping industry, the Jones Act has made it nearly impossible. The cost of buying a US-built ship is staggering to say the least. I would be very keen on buying a used one, but most of the US-built ships are used by the companies who buy them new until scrapping.”[/I]

Yeah, those ships are very valuable and American mariners are capable of maintaining them for a long long time. The cost only seems staggering because you don’t have any money but want to become a shipping baron without making any investment.

No one or any law is stopping you from “entering the cargo shipping industry.” Take your money and a business plan to the bank and go for it. Submit your plan to MARAD and see if they will co-sign for a few million to kickstart the enterprise.

[I]“In the mainland US to Alaska/Hawaii trade there are just a couple of companies (Totem, Horizon, etc) who operate, thus creating a monopoly.”[/I]

Why do you call it a monopoly when there is more than one … look up the word mono .
Those are the companies that made the investment in American ships and mariners that you are whining about not wanting to make. If you have a “better idea” on shipping goods to and from Alaska and Hawaii go for it, if the idea is any good you will get rich.

[I]“I don’t have the money to purchase a new, US-built ship at the cost of well over $80 million, when I can buy a 10 - 15 year old, German or Japanese vessel of equal capacity and quality for less than $10 million.” [/I]

Are you interested in becoming a shipping baron or just trying to work a cheap ship and a slave crew until you go broke and abandon the whole lot?

You can buy a foreign built coaster right now and run it in the Jones Act trade, the government sells them every time they catch a drug runner, and the military sells off old boats. There’s a little company in Ballard that will probably sell you one of theirs so you can prove your ability to save Hawaiians and Alaskans money while making a ton of your own.

[I]“So, after all of this, I reach the conclusion that it is easier for me run the ship that I purchase internationally (probably Asia to US). Now, I have just eliminated the need for American mariners on my ship. I don’t have the same USCG regulations. I am importing foreign goods to the US rather than potentially transporting American-made cargo to Alaska/Hawaii.”[/I]

Go for it. Let us know how it works out for you.

[I]“That said, if the Jones Act were simply amended to allow the use of foreign-built vessels for coastal trade, I would bet the farm that the US Merchant Mariner would have a resurgence and the citizens of Alaska and Hawaii would enjoy goods at a more reasonable cost.”[/I]

You don’t have to bet the farm, just put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is and “enter the shipping industry” so you can take some of the fortune you make undercutting Tote and Matson and Horizon and buy one of those big buck American built boats and show ‘em who the real shipping baron is.

Do us a favor though, make sure the crew is paid before you take your cut.

[QUOTE=Steamer;45071][I]“As a current resident of Hawaii and a former resident of Alaska, the Jones Act is part of my every day life. Nearly everything I buy gets shipped in. This gets very expensive, especially in Alaska.”[/I]

So maybe they should grow timber in Hawaii and build cars in Alaska? How about putting in a steel mill on Maui? Maybe Alaskans need to grow their own pineapples?

[I]“Also, as someone who has, for some time now, been considering entering the cargo shipping industry, the Jones Act has made it nearly impossible. The cost of buying a US-built ship is staggering to say the least. I would be very keen on buying a used one, but most of the US-built ships are used by the companies who buy them new until scrapping.”[/I]

Yeah, those ships are very valuable and American mariners are capable of maintaining them for a long long time. The cost only seems staggering because you don’t have any money but want to become a shipping baron without making any investment.

No one or any law is stopping you from “entering the cargo shipping industry.” Take your money and a business plan to the bank and go for it. Submit your plan to MARAD and see if they will co-sign for a few million to kickstart the enterprise.

[I]“In the mainland US to Alaska/Hawaii trade there are just a couple of companies (Totem, Horizon, etc) who operate, thus creating a monopoly.”[/I]

Why do you call it a monopoly when there is more than one … look up the word mono .
Those are the companies that made the investment in American ships and mariners that you are whining about not wanting to make. If you have a “better idea” on shipping goods to and from Alaska and Hawaii go for it, if the idea is any good you will get rich.

[I]“I don’t have the money to purchase a new, US-built ship at the cost of well over $80 million, when I can buy a 10 - 15 year old, German or Japanese vessel of equal capacity and quality for less than $10 million.” [/I]

Are you interested in becoming a shipping baron or just trying to work a cheap ship and a slave crew until you go broke and abandon the whole lot?

You can buy a foreign built coaster right now and run it in the Jones Act trade, the government sells them every time they catch a drug runner, and the military sells off old boats. There’s a little company in Ballard that will probably sell you one of theirs so you can prove your ability to save Hawaiians and Alaskans money while making a ton of your own.

[I]“So, after all of this, I reach the conclusion that it is easier for me run the ship that I purchase internationally (probably Asia to US). Now, I have just eliminated the need for American mariners on my ship. I don’t have the same USCG regulations. I am importing foreign goods to the US rather than potentially transporting American-made cargo to Alaska/Hawaii.”[/I]

Go for it. Let us know how it works out for you.

[I]“That said, if the Jones Act were simply amended to allow the use of foreign-built vessels for coastal trade, I would bet the farm that the US Merchant Mariner would have a resurgence and the citizens of Alaska and Hawaii would enjoy goods at a more reasonable cost.”[/I]

You don’t have to bet the farm, just put your money where your mouth (or keyboard) is and “enter the shipping industry” so you can take some of the fortune you make undercutting Tote and Matson and Horizon and buy one of those big buck American built boats and show ‘em who the real shipping baron is.

Do us a favor though, make sure the crew is paid before you take your cut.[/QUOTE]

I think you are missing the point, or you are conveniently ignoring it. I never once said anything about not using American Merchant Marines. Where did I say anything about running a “slave ship”? All I said was that the provision of the Jones Act that requires use of a US-built ship is ridiculous. Must truckers only use semis built in the US? Of course not.

Please educate yourself before spewing outlandish, incorrect statements. You said, “You can buy a foreign built coaster right now and run it in the Jones Act trade…”. No, simply, you cannot. Also, you suggested using a government seized drug runner or retired military vessel. Well, most drug runners are a) not built in the US & b) too small to use as a commercial trader (think large speed boat or commercial fishing vessel). The Navy doesn’t typically retire it’s vessels until they are nearly 50 years old and barely sea worthy. Once they are removed from active duty, they sit in a shipyard for a number of years just in case they are needed to be called back into duty. Many of these vessels need to be constantly repaired just to stay afloat. Then, they are sold. But, I guess that you’re right. I could buy a 50-year old, barely floating former battleship. That’d be the perfect ship to transport containers! Here is a great article from the [U]Journal of Ship Production[/U].
http://www.aidea.org/KetchikanShipyard/Foot%20Notes/10-PerformanceofMajorUSShipyardin20th21stCentury.pdf
Call me crazy, but I would think the author probably knows more about the economics of ship building than you do.

[QUOTE=cwagner;45166]I think you are missing the point, or you are conveniently ignoring it. I never once said anything about not using American Merchant Marines. Where did I say anything about running a “slave ship”? All I said was that the provision of the Jones Act that requires use of a US-built ship is ridiculous. Must truckers only use semis built in the US? Of course not.

Please educate yourself before spewing outlandish, incorrect statements. You said, “You can buy a foreign built coaster right now and run it in the Jones Act trade…”. No, simply, you cannot. Also, you suggested using a government seized drug runner or retired military vessel. Well, most drug runners are a) not built in the US & b) too small to use as a commercial trader (think large speed boat or commercial fishing vessel).

The Navy doesn’t typically retire it’s vessels until they are nearly 50 years old and barely sea worthy. Once they are removed from active duty, they sit in a shipyard for a number of years just in case they are needed to be called back into duty. Many of these vessels need to be constantly repaired just to stay afloat. Then, they are sold. But, I guess that you’re right. I could buy a 50-year old, barely floating former battleship. That’d be the perfect ship to transport containers! Call me crazy …[/QUOTE]

OK, you are crazy. It is obvious you don’t have a clue what you are talking about and are simply a dreamer fueled by internet fantasies. You don’t have any money but want to compete with real Jones Act ship owners. Because you can’t afford to compete on a level playing field, you blame the only law that protects what is left of a critical national asset that would otherwise have vanished years ago for a quick profit to a handful of speculators and investors.

If you knew enough about the shipping business to be a shipowner you would know that nearly every word you have posted is high school BS, or the lame effort of a newly minted anti-Jones Act shill.

Go away and bother some other group. You aren’t going to get much support from professional mariners.

This country forgets so quickly…

[QUOTE=captobie;37912]No surprise here. McCain has never been a friend of the U.S. flag fleet.[/QUOTE]

Senator McCain was in Vietnam during that war, has He forgotten who was bringing the supplies and putting their lives on the line; non-other than the US MARINER, I happen to be one of those Mariners.

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