If you get your Tankerman PIC, a tanker should shouldn’t be that hard to get. Call the companies directly (some are union) and see what they have.
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Yes. I will have that soon also.
AMO is something you may want to add to your list. They may still be shut down at headquarters in Dania due to the virus . They have a decent website to give a look see. All they can do is tell you yes,no,or maybe. As New3M says, call the some of the companies directly, union or not. Good luck sir.
Is working on a mud boat in the oil patch preparation for sailing as a deep sea mate?
I doubt that. SIU is looking for ABs, I think that would be a good place to start for at least six months. The jobs are available today.
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If he was in the wheelhouse, and had good skills, he may be more prepared than a green mate at any academy that gets said jobs. I am sure he was a decent AB already, been there, done that. Plus obtaining a 3rd Mate license on his own? I’d say no easy feat in this day and time, and hat’s off to him for accomplishing that. He knows when to duck.
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As I mentioned previously a big MSC contract will be announced probably 4th quarter or 1st quarter. If MMP loses that contract it would NOT be a good time to join MMP. But…things at AMO will probably be good or better than now as they gear up to man those ships.
Choosing MMP now would be a mistake. Trying to get a job in Tampa, especially without the MSC training would be a bigger mistake. Charleston on the other hand ships a lot of applicants.
If your super sharp you’ll be fine going straight to a ship. If your average you might have an unpleasant time. There will be a huge learning curve. A lot will depend on the type of Captain and Chief Mate. It could be a bad scene. Your expected to already know your job they give very little slack for being new.
Ask yourself, can I do a great or good job on a departure watch? If you’d be clueless I’d take Tug Sailors advice and do an AB job or two first. That may happen as soon as you leave the dock, so no time to learn and you certainly can’t figure it out during the watch, no matter how sharp you may be.
Good Luck
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A few things that will be different: Pilot ladders and getting pilots and their gear aboard and back off safely, taking lines from tugs and passing them back, anchoring, mooring to the dock with many more lines and winches, rigging gangways, in port security procedures, unfamiliar ship size and ship types of equipment, different watchkeeping customs and procedures, different drills and safety gear, especially lifeboats, communicating with foreign ships, navigation in unfamiliar areas with unfamiliar conditions, cardinal bouyage, port and starboard bouy colors reversed in most of the world, etc., etc. A lot of mud boat mates are only going to be familiar with Fouchon.
New third mates from the academy are trained for the deep sea ship way of doing things. They don’t have to be retrained from the mud boat way of doing things.
Most captains expect to train a new third mate from the academy. They may not expect to train an older hawespiper third mate from the oil patch.
I have many years of experience sailing as master on smaller vessels, but I certainly would not want sail as third mate on a deep sea ship without ever having set foot on one.
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Sorry, but ignore that nonsense of sailing as AB first. As an academy grad, who was supposedly trained in the deep sea ways, I was WAYYYYYY over my head on my first trip as 3/M. Keep your head down, soak up everything like a sponge, and you’ll be fine. Seems like you’re not an idiot if you’ve made it this far.
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I always welcomed seasoned boat handlers to my small world. It ain’t that hard once you understand the dynamics. Large or small tonnage. Although retired, sounds like someone I could work with, with a close eye over his shoulder, as would most decent captains and chief mates to better his craft if he has the tools to learn and listen. Yes, responsibilities are a bit different and different skill sets from a " Mudboat" but can you handle the job that fellow had? No way am saying academy grads are not good candidates to sail deep sea. But there are a few others that might be ok to further their craft.
One question I have, is if you are currently on OSVs how are you getting your tankerman PIC?
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Fair question.
Didn’t you sail deep sea as a Cadet? How many cruises did you do? After 4 years of maritime college, probably deep sea cruises, you still had a very tough time as 3rd. Hmmm. Not including my days in the Navy I’ve sailed on over 15 ships. Most had cadets. Some weren’t that sharp but by and large the majority were sharp and wouldn’t have been in way over there head sailing as 3rd. So…I can only imagine the rocket scientist you must be. I guess your proof that if you stick with it long enough even the dullest pencil in the box can make it as a deep sea mate.
Yeah go straight from a mud boat to deep sea mate having never done a cadet cruise or been a deep sea AB. Should be a piece of cake, what was I thinking.
I recall a recent arrival watch I had. I was simultaneously doing the gear test, keeping up with the arrival checklist and doing this with a decent amount of traffic as we were entering port. I wasn’t having fun but I could do it no prob. If you’ve never done any of those things on a ship before and you’re paired with Captain to that ain’t exactly warm and fuzzy. You’re gonna have a shitty day.
Look I worked with a Cal Maritime Grad that went to ECO straight outta school. After 6 years he got layed off. He came onto his first container ship as 2nd Mate. He had done his cadet cruises on ships but he was fine cause he was super sharp. I sailed with some Captains and Mates at ECO that were so experienced, so sharp they absolutely could handle that arrival watch.
So…never said it couldn’t be done. I said if you’re sharp it won’t be easy but you’ll be fine. But if your average or below average as it seems New 3M is then you’ll be in way, way over your head. If that sounds like the best way to go about it I wish you luck.
On the checklist it lists OSVs.
Tugsailor I understand what you’re saying and I never said I wouldn’t consider that. I’m not egotistical to the point I know it all. I have a ton to learn. I also know there is a large difference from the oilfield to ships.
While it may not mean much to you I have worked as all positions on these vessels. I’m not a button pushing dp mate.
Also quite ignorant to assume I don’t know about the buoys and cardinal marks. While foreign parts are certainly new I do understand how buoys work and the difference in A and B systems.
I do certainly appreciate all the advice and information.
Thank you all very much
It’s about 50/50. About half do ok.
The skills/knowledge and so forth required to sail deep-sea can be divided into two categories.
The first is the requirement to learn a number of individual tasks, the second is development of what I once heard called “sea-sense”.
Many academy trained third mates see the sea-going job as a matter of mastering a series of individual tasks but fail to comprehend the whole.
Deep-sea ships insulates mariners from the realities of the sea to a large degree. In some cases it takes mates years to develop sea-sense and some never do. Some never get beyond the concept of going to sea as anything but as a bundle of tasks.
On the other hand some mariners with a non deep-sea background have good sea-sense but perceive the non-seamanlike tasks as bullshit or can’t grasp the importance of the more formal approach used.
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As far as the question in the OP I would not frame it as “choosing” any one particular path but rather having the most options available.
For example an application for MSC can be filled out and sent, if they call with an job offer that would be an option at that time. Same goes for applications in general.
Same thing with joining a union. Generally speaking the upfront cost of joining are low. Once the shipping card is in hand only a quick visit to the hall from time to time is required to learn how old a card is needed for a decent chance to ship.
If one day you walk into the hall and shipping has improved for some reason a lot more options with a card that is six months old than having to get a new one that day.
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This has been my observation of the mudboat refugees I’ve had come up the gangway in the past 5 years.
In general I’ve seen good seamanship skills, but a sort of indifference to the formality that is required on an internationally trading ship. Paperwork being the Achilles heal of some. Most are trainable for sure and definitely intelligent enough to assimilate to the system, but I would put most professional mariners in that category as well.
To be honest, the worst adaptability I’ve come across are those transitioning to a commercial vessel from MSC or the Navy. The two worlds are vastly different and its almost like starting from scratch when it comes to training into the ship’s management system.
Again, just observations from a stiff who has spent his entire career on deep sea ships. I will never prejudge someone based on their previous work background, but there are definitely discernible differences in every facet of this industry. As long as you show up with an attitude that you are there to learn the way things are done on that ship, you will be fine. When you show up trying to reinvent the wheel as a Third Mate, you are going to have a tough go.
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Paperwork I agree on. Even in the supply boat world I know guys who don’t want to upgrade to get on bigger boats because of paperwork. I find it humorous.
A lot of good responses and I certainly appreciate everyone’s input.
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Oh ok, there’s the bitter old former Navy & hawespiper that’s finally come out.
Do you have any idea what the academy training is like? Sure, I did 2 cruises on the training ship. A 550ft POS where I learned how to use a wire wheel and crank a sound powered phone. And I even did a cadet ship trip on a 1000 ft car carrier that hardly left the dock, through no fault of my own. Learned how to count fire extinguishers and maintain all 200 fire stations though. As a senior, I had MAYBE 3 watches, on the bridge, where I was the “mate.” And I know at least 2 of them were crossing the Atlantic. Not a whole lot to do crossing the pond that’s really applicable to a busy watch…
So no, the academy didn’t prepare me for my first job, as I stepped onboard a 300 ft DP1 ship, with the rest of the deck department (except for the C/M), who had never been onboard a DP1 ship. The academy didn’t prepare for me to learn how to drive azipods with a skeg and learn a DP system that had a 1 page cheat sheet taped to the side. The academy didn’t prepare me to take my 300ft ship and drive it less than 0.25nm from land while surveying, or drive through a fleet of Filipino fishing canoes and all of their nets. Luckily I had a Captain who was also in way over his head and admitted it - you see, he came from one of those 1000 ft car carriers too. Not quite the same thing. And I had an AB whom I trusted who didn’t steer me wrong.
But, despite your broad stroke generalization that I don’t have a tip on my #2 pencil, I succeeded. Because i’m not a moron, and I work hard and try to figure shit out. I found the manual for that DP system and figured out how to use it and taught the 2/M (one of you navy hawespiper types) and the Captain what to do.
What’s the big fucking deal about getting on a big ship? There isn’t one. Show me a Captain who trusts the first trip 3/M (academy or not) to go up and drop the anchor without any sort of training. You? I doubt it. Despite what you seem to think, ships are a learning environment. I’m glad you made it to where you are without needing any training or help or asking a question of anyone. Most aren’t like that. Most don’t show up to the ship being able to take that arrival watch with the gear test and traffic and everything else that you’re an expert in. Want to know something? I could do that too, today. The first day I walked onboard? Nope. But I had good teachers and trainers, and here I am today.
Even got a tip on my pencil now.
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Paperwork was my most disliked chore. We got this new fangled thing called a computer way back when, supposedly to reduce the paperwork load. Then came the printer with it, and the cases of paper. The rest is history, as shoreside began requesting more “Paper”.
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