Got any grandkids? This is like trying to have an intelligent discusssion with a toddler.
Since Trump overruled the State governor and the Coast Guard and allowed them to dump their sick passengers on our shore, maybe they’re thinking that if they continue to loiter long enough we’ll let them dump their sick crews on our shores when they start dying. Once that phase is out of the way they can concentrate their efforts toward collecting corporate welfare from the American tax payer. It’s win win for them.
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I know that I invite fire and brimstone rhetoric, so be it, strictly my opinion.
I agree that cruise lines not flagged/registered in the USA do not qualify for bailout money.
But why this anti foreign flag cruise line sentiment on this forum? We can’t even build an affordable cruise ship, remember Project America, the hull, of what’s now Pride of America, started at Ingalls and had to be towed to Germany to be completed, and even though a fair share of German steel was used in that process it’s still considered US-built and therefor a Jones Act vessel!
Let’s be honest if all cruise ships sailing itineraries from US ports were flagged in the US and had to be manned with US crews, we would not be able to provide the required officers and crew. Just look at the problems we had to come up with able officers/crew for the “Turbo activation” of the “Ready” reserve fleet, a joke at best.
Have been in the commercial maritime business since 1963 and worked closely with US officers/crews and foreign officers/crews. The notion of the majority of forum participants that US officers/crews are superior to foreign officers/crews is highly exaggerated.
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RRF ships aren’t manned on a regular basis, the turbo activation was a problem because there weren’t enough people in the Halls, especially people who wished to burn their card for a for a couple of weeks on low paying low OT ships.
Companies like UnCruise in Seattle have no problem keeping their ships crewed
The “notion” is that the pseudo-American cruise companies are sucking billions of tax free dollars from this country, depend on American ports to provide them with shore side facilities, employ only the absolute minimum of Americans and pay next to zero in taxes to the American treasury. When their greed backfires on them as it has with the pandemic they expect a bailout and to have the American medical system deal with the problems they created by lying to passengers rather than cancelling cruises.
It is a filthy industry with a disgusting record of environmental crimes dating back for decades. If that industry cannot succeed by paying taxes, employing the citizens of the nation that hosts it and provides the feedstock of passengers then let it vanish.
If slavery were allowed to exist in the American South, cotton would still be king. Let the cruise industry go the way of cheap cotton. If it can’t exist otherwise, not many will miss it.
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In good times they are leaches. They play destination against destination to maximize profit. They encourage destinations to go into debt to provide the cruise lines a more profitable product. In return the destination barely makes ends meet. I’m not going to beat a dead horse.
In the times of coronavirus they mislead and lied to prospective passengers to get them on board where they became infected. They strong armed destinations to let them call at their ports knowing that sick passengers would go ashore and infect their communities. Then they took on another batch of passengers and did it again and again. They brought pestilence to the Caribbean like some old-time Spanish conquistador hunting for silver and gold while the islanders perished.
They sail from half a world away to dump their sick, dying and dead passengers and crew on American shores while sending their lackeys to fetch some American taxpayer bailout money.
Who wouldn’t be disgusted by them?
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You talk like all cruise lines are owned by American corporations, operate out of US ports and are totally dependent on US passengers.
Here is a list of the Cruise lines that is in operation (and those who have disappeared):
The three largest are US corporations, based and incorporated in USA but operate worldwide and under different Brands.Most of their ships are flying Bahamas flag, but they also operate companies that have ships under national flags
The largest is Carnival Corp:
#2 is Royal Caribbean Cruise Lines (RCCL):
This was one of the originally Norwegian company that pioneer modern cruising in the Caribbean, with home port Miami
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Caribbean_International
The 3rd one is Norwegian Cruise Line (NCL):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Caribbean_International
Originally founded by the real pioneer of modern Caribbean cruising, Knut Kloster. (His partner, Ted Arison later founded Carnival Corp)
It doesn’t change the fact that ALL nations has an obligation (by Law) to assist ships that declare an emergency.
All seafarers has an obligation to help as well. In this case, to support their fellow seafarers that is in danger of dying because they are denied assistance (By corrupt politician that worry more about their re-election and their corporate sponsors, than about human lives)
I’m appalled that Mariners on this forum appears to support the politicians, not their fellow seafarers
One day you may find yourselves in need of assistance in a foreign country Let’s hope that you are at least allowed into safe port and/or medical assistance as needed.
Mariners on this forum or a few mariners?
The ones that “appears to support the politicians” as I said in the rest of the sentence you quoted part of
I’ll give you my ‘like’ while I can because that meme will not stay up long. But very funny indeed
Thanks, I’m surprised it’s still up but enough is enough.
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According to Carnival’s own site, not some slanted Wikipedia propaganda piece:
"Carnival Corporation is incorporated in Panama, "
https://carnivalsustainability.com/cruising/about-carnival-corp-plc/
Give it up Bug, there is no way anyone can whitewash the filth off the cruise industry. It tells more lies than Trump, it is greedier than the Mongol hordes, and dirtier than the industry that sent children into the coal mines.
That industry’s performance since Corona came on the scene shines a spotlight on who and what they are and where the interests of the owners lie. Nothing you write can change the fact that the cruise industry is a filthy business that should be ended in its current form.
What those companies did was immoral. They killed people for money.
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They caused the deaths of passengers for their profit. They lured medically vulnerable passengers onboard to get infected.
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They caused the deaths of citizens of Caribbean nations for their profit. They blackmailed poor towns and countries to accept their infected ships.
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They caused the deaths of their crews for their profit. They didn’t stop cruises to isolate sick crew.
Why are you defending these murderers, @ombugge? Murderers for money. That’s what they did, on purpose! They caused the deaths of scores - maybe hundreds - of people for money. And you want us to do what? Enable their behavior by letting them come and go from our American ports to load passengers and discharge their newly sick, dying and dead? Disgusting, @ombugge. It’s disgusting to even consider it!
By denying these murderous corporations free pratique we deny their ability to lure more souls to death. As long as they operate in a manner that puts profit above life we, the decent mariners of this site, see no reason to enable those killers to take more lives.
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I do not defend murder, nor do I condone accusing an entire worldwide industry of behaving in a immoral or dangerous way. Many cruise lines have shut down their operation to avoid contaminating their pax, crews and the ports they may otherwise visit (if they are allowed)
I also don’t condone refusing to help when a ship need assistance to get treatment for sick people on board. Take the necessary precaution to protect the personnel involved, the medical staff and general public, like you would for any other operation involving patients contaminated with a contagious disease.
It is the moral and right thing to do and applies to all nations (No many follow)
For seafarers, I hope you are afforded help when you need it, no matter where in the world you may be.
For the Masters on here; I hope you NEVER find yourself in the same situation as the Master of Zaandam and many other ships are in now.
PS> I remember the subject of when to use MayDay was discussed here;
Would you have used it if you were faced with the possibility of dozens of people dying on board? (Within sight of a safe port)
Transferred from a different thread:
Does that apply to the entire Cruise industry, or just the three major operators, all of whom are American owned and operated?
That they have a “HQ” for tax and litigation purposes somewhere else doesn’t make them any less American, (Only less liable to US ta and habit of suing for everything)
From another thread:
Does this apply to the Master of a foreign ship trying to get medical help for his sick pax and crew??
Transferred from a different thread:
Can you guys get off the ideas that anything and everything has to do only with the US?
That ships are turned away from safe ports when in peril is a worldwide problem and subject to guidelines from IMO and Laws to the contrary.
That it now happens because of fear of a virus is not the main issue, nor the reason I get worked up over this.
That seafarers, (some, not all) appears to think that this is the time to “punish” some cruise line bosses (for not hiring Americans), by letting pax and crews die because they are refused entry to safe port, is downright incomprehensible to me. (I don’t care where it happens)
YOU may be the next at the receiving end of this practice.
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Does this have anything to do with government bailout for the cruise industry?
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