Have you heard about the new plan? All 2/O Navigators will become 2/O Operations? They will add an extra 3/O to the ships to help cover the Navigator duties. A “new” unlicensded deck (??) position will be created, Operations Specialits, to assist the 2/O with naval messages and RAS planning. I guess this would be some retired US Navy A/B who is familiar with that kind of stuff.
One year from now there will be no more active duty US Navy on the oilers and AKE’s. Too bad that no more Navy OS’s will be able to experience the “good life” on our ships.
I don’t see any problems with this, sounds like a good idea. It creates more 3/O billets for the 30-50 new Mates MSC hires year after year.
Some 15 years ago, when this idea first began to gain traction, a well-thought-out proposal was floated to make the Ops Officer a Chief Mate with prior Navigator and Cargo Mate experience. MSC didn’t want to spend the money for the added experience. When MSC started with the 2/O Ops position, they had hand-picked star performers who did a great job.
Fast forward a few years, and in typical MSC fashion, they have dumbed down the position. Now everyone with a Second Mate’s license will be able to fill an Ops billet with no idea what they are talking about. MSC ships will be no better than their customers at figuring out how to do business. The best entertainment will be watching the three Third Mates maneuver and whine to be the “senior” watch officer/Navigator.
[QUOTE=LauHalaLana;80842]The best entertainment will be watching the three Third Mates maneuver and whine to be the “senior” watch officer/Navigator.[/QUOTE]
Maybe they will all work together as in BRM! Muahahahahahah!
Will the Navy transfer the personnel cost savings of the lost Navy personnel to MSC’s funding to help cover the cost? Is USN downsizing these positions or transferring them to active fleet? If it’s a transfer, it screws the budget (more). Will we now send our people to NAVY OS A-school or at least some portion of it? Will this be a required check-off under “experience” for promotion? Nothing is EVER as simple as it looks.
Taking USN Ops off usns is the right move, how they accomplish it is the question. Naval Ops personnnel were temp employees to msc. By the time they knew much it was time to transfer. Usns having a core of Lic officers do Ops is great. The msc Ops I had all worked out fine. Id much rather work with our own as most became highly proficient in a short time. For that matter give me a civilian helo det too!
The problem is msc management who have been know to screw up massive wet dreams in the past
In addition to meeting other conditions of employment, this position requires applicants to have:
At least 10 years military experience (E6 or above), as an Operations Specialist (OS) or Quarter Master (QM)
OR
Experience as a U.S. Navy Active Duty Line Officer (O3 or above), LDO or CWO with Surface Warfare Officer (SWO) qualifications and at least 3 years of seagoing experience
OR
Sailed as a First Radio Electronics Technician or above with a minimum of 3 years Navy seagoing experience (E6 or above) as an Operations Specialist (OS) or Quarter Master (QM)
Specific Details and requirements will be posted in the official Job Opportunity Announcement once released. If you are interested in this position, please Start the Process."
Simply someone within the shoreside Msc world that is a retired USN type trying to get jobs for fellow retired USN types. The “ops-o” billet on an Msc ship is not rocket science and perhaps better served by someone within the Msc family with watch and cargo time. This notice is mainly msc shoreside / USN bullshit. The list of qualifications above has nothing to do with being a good ops officer for the most part…
Two things. First, there is already an unlicensed quartermaster position in the pay charts so hiring/promoting an AB to QM to assist the nav shouldn’t be hard. It would be a boon for the hawsepipe.
Second, and to me quite funny, is the CFR requirement of a year as OICNW holding a second mate license to sit for a first officer license. Imagine the retention rate of licensed second mates shipping in a “senior” third mate billet, at third mate pay, to get their first officer time. “Don’t put in that KSA for second or else you won’t get the license for first!”
MSC is already short on firsts. This ought to be good…
True. I’m curious if the USCG knew you were an ops officer for a year trying to sit for a chief mate test just what their take would be. “Navigation? Well, err, noooo but. D know something about logistic operations with the USN and how to unscrew them when they get the cart before the horse”. I used to get such a kick out of the N4 Lcdr types that thought they knew something about logistics only to find they were well off course… Amazing what the USN does not know about supplying ships at sea.
Replace 3 mildly retarded US Navy enlisted with 1 mildly retarded MSC 2nd Mate & and 1 mildly retarded MSC A/B. Seems to me like a good plan. BLUF: it’s a force multiplier.
Figured I had a good opportunity to resurrect this thread.
As soon as I got wind of the plans my first question was “How will 2/Os get sea days? Has MSC thought this through? Have they worked something out with the Coast Guard?” Nobody I was in direct contact with knew. So, I sent an email to civmar support. They’re supposed to have all the answers, right? Unfortunately, they had no idea what plan I was talking about. “Could you please email us that attachment?” I could already tell that this was going to end well.
Long story short, civmar support had no idea. My detailer had no idea and (very rudely) said that I should “consult [my] shipboard chain of command”.
At that point I gave up. I guessed MSC would figure it out when they can no longer hire/retain any 2/Os.
But, recently I had the opportunity to ask RADM Buzby the same question personally. But, he had no idea (though, to his credit, he did say something about maybe having the 2/M rotate with the watch standers or something).
[QUOTE=UnRepKing;83431]Replace 3 mildly retarded US Navy enlisted with 1 mildly retarded MSC 2nd Mate & and 1 mildly retarded MSC A/B. Seems to me like a good plan. BLUF: it’s a force multiplier.[/QUOTE]
I did the job. I had a great assistant who was a former navy OS and was an RET1. I’m not sure how mildly retarded I am.
I’ll tell you what their response will be. “Hey, kid, you look at the eCFR? You see that section that says how to get your 1/O upgrade? It says, 360 days as ONCNW. That means you got to stand one year of watch holding a 2/O license. What you got as a 2/O OPs is, at best, year of ONCDW and if you don’t know what that is how 'bout you look up the CFRs for how to get your 2/O. Kid, go back to your company and tell them you wanna demote for a year and stand 360 days as ‘senior’ 3/O watch at 3/O pay to get your time for a 1/O license and reapply when you got some hair on your sack.”
Every Jack, Ass and Harry will make chief mate and captain as anyone with common sense will flee at that stage of the game.
[QUOTE=UnRepKing;83431]Replace 3 mildly retarded US Navy enlisted with 1 mildly retarded MSC 2nd Mate & and 1 mildly retarded MSC A/B. Seems to me like a good plan. BLUF: it’s a force multiplier.[/QUOTE]
I did this job for about 8 months. My assistant was an RET1. Opinions on my intelligence might vary but I don’t consider myself or my assistant as retarded. As for those concerned with how the ops billet will impede their advancement to 1/O. I say “slow down hotshot”.
The criteria for the job “Operations Chief” is for UNLICENSED folks with related US Navy and/or MSC experience. I don’t see an indication that 2/O will go away. The same familiar USN Operations Specialist faces, and others, will return after they retire from the USN.
(As far as getting a “1/O” License, more affectionately known as a Chief Mate License, there are 50+ assesement to be accomplished along with having a hairy sack and the 360 days of standing OICNW for 8 hours min.)
Word from MSC N1 is that it will be a “navigator/ops” position. Three 3rd mates to stand watch with the 2/O still doing sail plans and what not in addition to the ops duties. With the way USN ships operate before unreps it’s actually not a bad idea since they will change the rdvz 10 times in the day leading up to it. This way the nav doesn’t have to keep calling the mil det to find out where we should have been 2 hours ago. As far as the unlicensed position, there seems to be very little info on that other than prior navy with OS experience. N1 said that the negotiations for the unlic ops assistant pay did not yield the results they had hoped so it may be hard to fill that billet.
Unlic ops position is a waste of time and money. Having the 2/0 nav do it is ludicrous. What has worked best in the past is a senior third officer or second officer that assumes the ops duties. This extra watch officer can assume other duties, be they bridge duties or under instruction cargo duties in order to build another care officer. With one additional watch officer the entire mildept ops can be replaced while at the same time build a very knowledgable cargo/ops officer. With a core of these new ops officers scattered through the fleet you maintain continuity at the same time. With the rotating navy ops you need to train them each time a new one comes along on how Msc does things. But leave it to Msc to hose unit up beyond recognition. I suspect the entire ops program got highjacked by the retired USN that feed off Msc and see it as a means to being in their old " shipmates" into the fold for some easy money.
" This way the nav doesn’t have to keep calling the mil det to find out where we should have been 2 hours ago" is a problem, should not be in mildept ops are doing their job right ( and have an OS posted on the bridge the night before the operation). But with a dedicated civmar ops officer this issue also goes away. The 2/o watch due to his/ her need to stand watch is busy enough and is not the one that should assume additional ops duties
[QUOTE=Salty_;84953]Figured I had a good opportunity to resurrect this thread.
Long story short, civmar support had no idea. My detailer had no idea and (very rudely) said that I should “consult [my] shipboard chain of command”.
At that point I gave up. … .[/QUOTE]
CIVMAR support coud not answer your question? A detailer was rude? Right now I’m looking in the mirror and practicing my “shocked” face. Now is a great time for joining MSC. I’m pretty sure if you can wave a 2nd mate license at them, you’re hired. Same with Chief Mate. Still, a detailer being rude is a slight improvement over a detailer who refuses to answer her phone or reply to E-mails. Consider yourself privileged.
Why work for msc anyway? These days with a license, gain a DP cert. work 28/28. Make $600 - $1200 a day and be home more. Seems the oil field has moved into larger vessels and they love unlimited licenses. ( unlike years past in the the oil field ).