New Bloomberg Anti-Jones Act article

Russia and China are command and control economies. Cheap workers with no benefits or rights, including actual slave labor. No environmental rules to follow. No courts where anyone can challenge what is being done.

No private company in an advanced western economy where workers have good wages, benefits, and where environmentalists have rights, and the time, inclination, and money to go to court to make sure that environmental rules are followed, can compete with Russia or China in labor intensive industries that require land development for industry that produces pollutants.

The US is a large country with a large population that specializes in services, entertainment, finance, and relatively clean high tech industries. The US is very good at this.

Norway is a relatively small country with vast natural resources wealth and a tiny population. Norway specializes in its maritime cluster which is part of its national culture and identity. Norway is very good at maritime.

A good argument can be made that the US should stick to what it’s good at —- aerospace, biotech, computers, software, AI, nanotechnology, etc., and leave shipping and shipbuilding to Norway. And at the end of the day, that’s probably what will eventually happen.

Alternatively, some people believe that the US cannot survive as country that only produces creative ideas and services, while handing over production of all the basic goods necessary for survival to other countries to produce.

Cows do fart a lot. I bet reindeer expel a fair amount of methane too.

True, and apparently unfounded distrust of agricultural science is high in Europe.

It must have been a while since last you visited China and Russia and/or read much about either place.
Both places have turned fairly capitalistic over the last couple of decades or more and in China at least they are developing a culture of innovation again.
But you are right, labour rights lags far behind that of Europe. USA isn’t exactly renowned for labour rights, unionization or equality either.

Yes, US is still a country that is good at developing new technology, but not as dominant as it once was. Creating new and better social networks that produces no tangible products, is not enough to maintain leadership in the technology sector, though. China especially rejects the domination of US social networks and create their own rivaling technology, both software and hardware to go with it.

I know less about Russia, since I haven’t been there for many years, but I have been working with a lot of Russians at all levels.
From what I read, see and hear, Russia is also catching up. Just look at what they are doing in the Arctic, despite US efforts to block them:
http://gcaptain.com/russia-wins-arctic-u-s-fails-kill-giant-gas-project/?goal=0_f50174ef03-cf9fae61d1-169863069&mc_cid=cf9fae61d1&mc_eid=4674ba0fbe

If US is to continue to be world leader in anything, you have to be willing to accept that the world doesn’t stand still and wait for you to lead. There is little, if anything, being produced in USA today that is not also available from other sources.

It is no shame in learning from others, like others have taken your guidance and learnt from it.

You call feeding cattle and pigs with hormones and washing chicken with Chlorine SCIENCE???

In that case, these are your Scientist??:
image

Norway is doing their bit to curb the problem with farthing reindeers.

A few hundred of the wild reindeers on the high plateau in Southern Norway are being culled to stop an outbreak of Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) from spreading to the tame herds.

At the same time the train on Nordlandsbanen keep on running down dozens of reindeers belonging to the Sami herders on Saltfjellet in Nordland County.

PS> Not a recommended way of solving the problem of burping and farthing cattle.
Better solution: Stop eating so many steaks and hamburgers.

  1. The term you used, “frankenfood”, refers specifically and EXCLUSIVELY to genetically modified food, nothing else.

  2. You’re proving you’re as ignorant and afraid of science as the “rednecks” you like to mock.

http://newsroom.unl.edu/announce/beef/2846/15997

I referred to three items:

The fact remains, Europeans (any many others) does not WANT any of these three items on their dinner table. Trying to force them to accept these products in order to sell their product on the US market is not likely to succeed in the near future either. The US market may be big and attractive, but it is not the ONLY place sell things, or to buy beef, chicken and soy, or corn.

PS> We have “Redneck” wannabes in Norway too:

Because they’re ignorant and afraid of science.

The only thing on the list that is bullshit (and isn’t “science”) is bleached chicken, and that’s going away in the US as consumers are against that as well.

Norway rednecks suck. There wasn’t even a fireball or shrapnel shooting at the cameraman.

2 Likes

Wonder if the Romans debated bullshit things when the empire crumbled around them?

2 Likes

No. The Romans were too busy having orgies to bother to manage their empire. The US is too puritanical for that. The US is too busy tweeting and worrying about who was an asshole towards women 30 years ago, to even notice that the top 1 percent is busy selling away the future to China and others dirt cheap for fast cash today.

At least the Romans went out with a smile on their faces.

6 Likes

Those guys look really familiar. Oh. Wait. Now I recognize them. They were personnel managers at OSV companies in Louisiana when I went down there a few years ago.

The SL7’s were real beauties. I attended the sea trials of the three built in Holland, the Sea-Land McLean, Resource and Exchange. With 120.000 hp in their belly they did 33 knots. During the trials they even pushed it up to 36 knots as could be seen on the Ametek Straza doppler log.

6 Likes

The SL-7’s had several strikes against them which ultimately made them uneconomical to operate. One of course being the price of fuel. Another was they were primarily designed to carry 35 ft containers in a world that was shifting to a 40 ft standard. There are workarounds above deck (40s stacked over 35s) but not below deck.

In their day they were big and fast. Certainly still fast today which makes them useful for the government but they were in the neighborhood of 2000 TEU containerships. Small by today’s standards.

PS: When Malcolm McLean started the containership revolution 35 ft containers were the largest you could put on the road. That of course has changed.

We can sit around and discuss Norwegian sculptors.

I worked on Antares and Denebola, loved how huge the engine room was. Awesome feeling standing in the middle of 120,000 hp.

4 Likes

I found this article in NYT from 2003 re: US flag on foreign built ships, but still being used in domestic cruise operations:

Although rather old it is interesting to see how NCL was able to play the game.

There are several inaccuracy in the article though.
First of all; NCL is NOT a Norwegian company based in Malaysia. In fact there is nothing Norwegian about it except the name these days.

It is a Miami based company run by mostly Americans, but the defacto Owner is a Malaysian-Chinese Tycoon now living in Hong Kong, He own the parent company of NCL, Genting Berhad, which is a gambling conglomerate with Casinos in many countries.

PS> He now have controlling interest in several other Cruise Lines, partly under the NCL umbrella.

Also interesting to note is how opinions are changing:

Here’s another one from Bloomberg.

The Sad and Ugly Truth About Jones Act Politics: Editorial

published Dec 19, 2017, 6:00:26 AM, by The Editors
(Bloomberg View) –
Who actually benefits from the Jones Act, the 1920 law stipulating that all maritime commerce between U.S. ports has to take place on ships that are built, owned and crewed by Americans?

The American Maritime Partnership, a lobbying group, will tell you that the act supports nearly half a million jobs and each year generates $10 billion in taxes and $46 billion in additional U.S. output. Even if you take these statistics at face value, they fail to allow for the jobs, taxes and output lost in the rest of the economy.

What about the act’s stated purpose – which, together with other laws such as the 1936 Merchant Marine Act, is to ensure that the U.S. retains a robust merchant marine and advanced maritime sector for domestic commerce and times of war or crisis? That’s no more persuasive, once you note the steady decline of shipbuilding and the U.S. oceangoing fleet over the past five decades.

Other articles in this series:The Jones Act Costs All Americans Too MuchThe Jones Act Serves No Purpose

In truth, the Jones Act survives because narrow commercial interests want it to. A protectionist thicket has long surrounded U.S. commercial shipping and shipbuilding. It has gradually hardened into a political wall impervious to economic reason. President Donald Trump spoke the truth in September: When asked whether he would waive the act for Puerto Rico, he said the U.S. has “a lot of people that work in the shipping industry that don’t want the Jones Act lifted.”

Those people are backed by a flotilla of senators and representatives who are failing to put the broader interests of voters first. They include the 60-odd members of the Congressional Shipbuilding Caucus, one of the bigger and more active of such legislative groups. Filling their coffers and bending their ears are the American Maritime Partnership; the Shipbuilders Council of America; other like-minded industry groups; and scores of individual shipbuilders, shipping lines and labor unions. In 2016, donors associated with sea transport coughed up more than $10 million in campaign contributions – the most since at least 1990 – and spent almost $25 million on lobbying.

The arithmetic of special-interest pleading is interesting. Consider New Jersey Senator Cory Booker, whose $31,000 from sea transport groups put him in the top 20 of Senate recipients in 2014. That winter, he blasted state officials for failing to lay in salt for clearing roads. Without the Jones Act, an available foreign-flag ship could have transported the salt from Maine for $500,000; using slower U.S. barges caused delay, and cost the state $1.2 million. Booker and his fellow senator Robert Menendez, who had unsuccessfully sought a Jones Act waiver, then chided those who “recklessly” called for the act’s abolition.

Nothing seems more perverse, though, than the vocal support given to the Jones Act by the congressional delegations of Alaska and Hawaii. Consumers in states held hostage to relatively expensive U.S. seaborne commerce are the act’s biggest losers. Maritime industries drive neither economy: In both Alaska and Hawaii, shipbuilding and repair provided well under 0.5 percent of employment, labor income and output in 2013. Nonetheless, the Jones Act lobby has been a reliable horn of campaign plenty: In 2016, Hawaii’s senators and two representatives ranked in the top 20 recipients of sea-transport campaign contributions, as did Alaska’s two senators.

Those dollars help to get Jones Act-friendly candidates re-elected. They do less than nothing for the voters of those states and the country as a whole.

For what it’s worth, Bloomberg is one of the Cheeto’s noisiest supporters and is for anything that will elevate the condition of those whom the Cheeto is serving.

Bloomberg and Fox are the Judas drumbeaters of a movement that smacks of 1930s Europe.

As a faithful Bloomberg reader, my impression is that Bloomberg is definitely anti-Trump as a person, and opposed to most of President Trump’s policies.

I find it remarkable how anti-Jones Act virtually all of the media is. The impact of the Jones Act on consumer prices is incredibly minuscule. Even in Puerto Rico, Alaska, and Hawaii. No doubt less than the added consumer cost of News and media caused by employing high cost American “journalists” and others at the news and media companies.

If we want to save Americans money, let’s start by issuing work visas to any foreign journalist that wishes to come to America. American journalists can find new careers which they are better suited to, such as bus boys and dishwashers. Additionally, the foreign journalists are a lot better, just look at John Oliver and Stuart Varney.

When are we going to stop the senseless burdening of 330 million American consumers with these high cost, low quality, American journalists?

2 Likes