Need info from graybeards


#46

It would be if it were for longer. You can’t work for a competing company for 5yrs. We had a maintenance tech quit and go work for a company in different state that did something loosely similar in a different base material and they pressured him legally until he had to quit. This guy didn’t even do anything related to manufacturing process outside of maintaining the machines we use, all he did was lubricate, wire 3 phase motors, reset breakers and drives.


#50

Courts frequently void or refuse to enforce overreaching non compete agreements.

Non compete agreements must be reasonable in time and scope, and they must not prevent the employee from earning a living in his occupation, or they will not be enforced. Few mom and pop companies would be willing or could afford to try to enforce a noncompete agreement anyway.

A non compete is most likely to be enforced where there are unique skills acquired as the result of employer training, unique processes, trade secrets, and confidential business information.

Of course it depends on what the controlling cases say in that jurisdiction.

My educated, trained, experienced, and licensed physical therapist friend signed a non compete saying that her new employer was going to provide her special training in the employer’s proprietary and unique treatment techniques and if she quit or was fired she could not work again in physical therapy in the state for five years. A year later she quit the terrible job and got a new job in the same city. The court refused to enforce the noncompete because it was overbroad.

What would I do if a tugboat company wanted me to sign a noncompete? In a good job market I’d tell them to go pound sand. In a bad job market, I might sign it, but I’d ignore it, and change jobs as I saw fit. I doubt that it would be enforceable, or that they would try.


#53

Yeah, its a big multinational company with products in a lot of homes under their brand or other major brands. Any home without their brand anywhere in it has their competitors.

I definitely have unique skills acquired as the result of employer training, a knowledge of trade secret formulas and processing methods. I was trained by a bunch of soon to be retirees. I’m one of 8ish people nationally who actually do it, maybe a handful more for all the other companies combined but I know we do the most business. Two more graybeards about to retire and another that will probably have to retire early because he is trying to pickle himself inside out with rotgut.

I thought the job would be valued with as few people qualified to do it. For a while it was. In 2017 we got some new white collar guy from another continent in charge who thinks nobody will leave if he puts the squeeze on because of NCA or complacency in general. He is absolutely right when it comes to the older guys they all have mortgages, families and a year or two till they retire. If that was the case for me I’d probably tough it out to get my pension too. It isn’t the case though and I’m not one for willingly bending over to get a good deepdicking from higher ups for the good of the company (bonuses for management.) This company should be known for losing a dollar by trying to save a dime.

I’d say they would very likely come after me if I tried to work for a competitor if I could even get hired by one, they might not even want to fool with me. I think its best to move on while I’m still young.


#67

Come on, Wasteful, we’ll find another lunch table to sit at.


#68

I realisr I’m probably sticking my head in the shitter for pitching in at such a tender age (physically and experience wise) but I find the whole vibe of this thread distressing.

I think wasteful seems like the kind of guy the industry needs. Someone with a bit of life experience who has a desire to learn, stretch into a new industry and apply himself and to a large extent all he is getting is crap from people who come across as bitter because the good old days have sailed.

Seriously. Sure, the industry is tough. Probably especially in the US market because of (as I percieve it) the jones act and union cronyism. But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t encourage new people to prove that they can hack it, let alone literally grind them down into the dirt.

I mean what’s the problem? He put himself out there, asked questions about how to best proceed (information which can be exceedingly hard to come by in a concise manner at the best of times) and to be honest, puts himself across as a hard working, sound dude I would be happy to sail with.

So Wasteful, good on ya. I can’t give you any advice as to the best way to get out there for an american seeing as I jave zero knowledge of the system across yonder pond, but I say go for it, and fuck anyone who tries to piss on your parade.


#70

I differ with your take on the value of the posts here.

There are tons of older posts that are still useful and still relative to what the OP is asking. This forum goes through waves of newbies that come and go with the wind who ask pretty much the same things over and over again. It is really counterproductive to repeatedly answer these questions when it would be far more useful for the newbie to use the search function. There’s even a thread filled with company names to apply to and it’s floating around somewhere for the finding. Some of these outfits may be defunct now but it’s a great place to start doing research.

Just read the rest of the fuckery in the thread. My comments still stand. OP go forth and do your homework. If you think it’s BS to dig through old threads then move on please


#71

Thanks Cat. 10 year ago everyone was talking about how wonderful things are.
My how time has changed. There will be another 5-6 years before things pick up. We depend on trade, a lot depends on the moron running the USA as president.


#72

Which moron are you talking about? The one that was running the country 10 years ago? I retired almost 10 years ago and my investment portfolio has blossomed in the last 2 years. Industry growth is through the roof in my area. Property values too. But you don’t hear about that on the news…


#73

It is done. Waiting on the NSA then the USCG after. Still gonna take the ASVAB and see what I can offer the armed forces. I found the old posts, I did my homework and I’m doing some more. I’ve been through lots of posts on here whether I’ve been logged in to get the read time on my profile or not.

Something that would benefit all future and present parties would be a pinned post linking to, or containing all the information from the useful posts of yesteryear. I could do it, I might even put in information on every program of every union, academy, trade school, yacht staffing resource and cruise ship that I have managed to find.

Think of the money it might save on blood-pressure meds for the handful of users who get all worked up at the thought of someone who is interested asking a simple question about where to start. Those guys deserve every ounce of shit they’re given right? Fuck anyone who wasn’t born with a solid silver sextant up their ass.


#77

There is a READ THIS FIRST stickie thread under the Marine Employment category. Yes, the category we are in now. There is still a lot of good information here.

The sad truth is that the maritime job market remains extremely depressed. Jobs are hard to find. The quality and desireability of jobs that are available is often quite low.There is a tremendous oversupply of mariners chasing the few jobs that are available.

In spite of a booming US economy with record low unemployment, maritime employment is the big exception.

At the same time, new regulations and training requirements have made it very expensive to obtain, and to keep, all the required USCG certifications. Its more difficult and more expensive than ever to become a new Mariner. The result of this new regulatory scheme is that the large majority of new mariners in the future are going to be products of formal training programs: academies, for-profit vocational schools, community colleges, union schools, and employer run schools.

Unless someone has a really burning desire and compelling reasons to become a Mariner, they should instead consider the many better and much more stable job opportunities in the greater US job market.


#78

That statement alone shows how little you know about the US merchant marine, its history, and the history of maritime unions in the US and worldwide. It is much more of an indication of just how much Kool-Aid you have consumed during your (by the sound of it) very short working life.


#79

I’m the first to admit that I am inexperienced. And perhaps a brand of cool-aid has been sipped during that time. It is however, perhaps an indication of how the US merchant marine is percieved by outsiders?

As far as my understanding of the jones act goes, it seems to me that requirements that all tonnage operating between american ports have to be exclusively manned by americans and built by american shipyards has resulted in an aged fleet, sluggish regulatory follow up to preserve tonnage that otherwise perhaps should not be sailing (the El Faro comes to mind) and limiting opportunities for growth of the seafaring community.

Very seldom do I hear of Americans sailing deep sea any more (of course there are some) because you are expensive. The same goes for Norwegians, and to a lesser degree Brits.

Also, I have the impression that getting started in the US industry is hard unless you kniw someone or have an in with a particular union somehow. This last point is definitely only based on a vague sense primarily stemming from 3rd and 4th party accounts. The vibe on this forum however is not doing much to sway that tentative opinion.

I find the maritime industry to be fascinating, and I know that i have only started to smudge the top of it with my infantile scratchings. Again, this should not be frowned upon in my opinion, but be nurtured.


#80

The US has around 10,000 Jones Act vessels, mostly smaller vessels, in domestic trade with well over 50,000 jobs for US mariners. Without the Jones Act, it would be damn few US vessels and only a few hundred US jobs.

The US privately owned foreign going merchant fleet is only about 60 vessels and maybe 5,000 jobs. It’s still shrinking.

Most countries have cabotage laws similar to the Jones Act. Those that don’t, like Australia, have damn few jobs for mariners.


#81

Hoo brother!..it is really too bad I cannot respond to this in the manner I would prefer but so be it to protect the sensitive feelings of a youngster.


#82

yes, infants need nurturing…a nice fat tit to suckle on is always a sure fire way to keep a baby pacified…don’t you agree?


#83

How would that requirement result in an aged fleet?


#84

Costs of newbuilds are too high to incentivise owners to scrap old tonnage, instead focusing on stretching the lifespan of current vessels as much as possible or making conversions such as allowing the el faro to carry deck containers.


#85

I don’t see how it makes any difference in a captive market where all players have the same costs. If US companies had to compete against foreign companies with foreign ships and crew then they’d have to save in any way possible.


#86

I’ll definitely have to do some reading on the subject. Thanks for the figures.

This could certainly be improved upon somehow right?

Also, I think cabotage laws are great, but they should not be so severe that they result in the opposite desired outcome.


#87

Sure could. How’s about you reflag that nice new container ship you are about to sign on to over to the good ol’ Stars and Stripes?

Those 60 ships are part of a program sponsored by the US government which guarantees each ship $5 million per year to attempt to offset the higher cost of operating with Americans in return for immediate access to the military in a time of war. Insurance and crewing costs (unlicensed) are quite high for Americans. Just like factory jobs went the way of the dodo for Americans, so to are it’s sailing jobs