are you speaking in terms of paid vacation or just vacation away from the ship? A 6 month tour seems stupid when SIU contracts max out at 120 with 120 days off following.
The commercial world might have 15/30 paid vacation, but their actual leave is day for day, which to me is the massive downside to MSC. That and the fact that there is never a relief, but those two kind of go hand in hand.
Speaking as a commercial Mariner all the issues with MSC seem very obvious.
Go to sealiftcommand.com and check out those sign on bonuses. I think they give them to you up front too. Getting pretty bad. I wonder if MSC is even more dysfunctional than TSA and USPS?
Ok, I see your point for unlicenced IRT vacation.
Best I saw was 18/30 NMU in the 80’s. Which was pretty good. I know M.E.B.A has different vacation schedules because of the now standard “cafeteria” contracts with the companies. Before it was Dry Cargo and Tanker contracts.
And I agree, no one should stay past four months. The couple of time I signed articles I knew what was going to be my payoff date.
To even make an effort to take a step in the direction toward parity with the industry, MSC has IMHO past the point of no return. That’s how hosed up it is.
I retired from MSC. Yes, there were lots of ups and lots and downs. We needed more than a little TLC but the tankers and dry cargo ships were making the commitments. We did and finished the job. I was late being relieved several times, and yes it frosted my ass but I never expieranced the nightmare scenarios I read and hear from several sources. I’ve heard many (mostly officers) leaving for anything commercial. Lots of platforms sailng undermanned.
They turned into Dynmarine who then lost the contracts for a few years until they recreated themselves as 3PSC and got the contracts back. I don’t know where they are today, but it’s under some other name if they’re still around.
Never mind. They’re gone.
I think you’re misunderstanding what I’m saying. SIU vacation varies from like 12-20/30 in terms of vacation pay. What I’m talking about is time away from the ship.
For example, I work a 90 day hitch. My next hitch is 90 days later. If the company calls and asks me to come back at 60 days I can tell them no and still keep my job. That’s what the real killer is for me. I have no interest doing a 6 month hitch because I couldn’t get relieved on time and go right back 2 months later. That doesn’t include time for classes I’d need.
My understanding is also that while you’re waiting on your next ship you’re staying in a hotel in either Norfolk or San Diego? That seems like the biggest waste of money. I leave from my house every time I go to work. Why would I need to sit in a hotel to get a piece of paper that says I’m going to Bahrain? They can send me an email with my flight.
MSC shows no sign of concern over manning.
Agreed! No less than 60 days to complete travel claims and if you forgot something, they simply don’t pay it. A cursory review with a reply to the CivMar letting them know more information is required would be nice but it’s just simpler for them to deny the claim or a portion within. Customer service is pathetic at best. Even when using the Help/support system I have yet to get a correct response. There answer is to try and get everyone on the government travel card. Yet another nightmare to deal with. They don’t realize that we have such limited bandwidth on most ships and comms is down or extremely limited more often than not. I’m too close to retirement to bail today but the end is coming soon. Decent pay and benefits for most but the juice ain’t worth the squeeze!
I personally stayed off as long as I had enough vacation in my account. I managed from one month up to five months. Could have been better? Sure, I did the best with what our leave accrual rate is currently pegged at. I had heard of others getting callbacks while unpacking their luggage after being days overdue. It only happened once to me and I told the office to pretty much buzz off. Checking into the pool after coming off vacation nothing happened in regard to a disciplinary from ignoring their return to work order. Can’t do it in todays MSC.
I believe until around 88-89 CIVMARS, like the commercial boys paid their way awaiting a ship. As a CIVMAR, being in the pool and your home of record is more than 50 miles ftom HQ (San Diego, NOB) you are allowed lodging. Been in the government regulations a long time.
It is nice to have your lodging paid awaiting a ship for a few days but concur it has morphed into a boondoggle that is probably too big to fail. If pool control was managed better, the surplus funds could be used for increased leave. A small step in the right direction.
In my early years, I checked into Oakland or San Diego and spent only a couple of days unless for mandatory training or updating my msc physical. Later on I shipped from home to wherever I was assigned. As permenent government employees we have permenent positions. Get off, give up a ship you go out the same position next assignment. In commercial you have permenent ship. But for msc to make it work the industry standard vacation schedules with mandatory rotations must be made the norm. Might make it a more professional organization. Not perfect but a step forward. My limited exposures to commercial, though not perfect itself I saw a lot more professionalism.
The container ships I did nite work the top four positions had two of each for continuity and scheduled rotation. Almost every other position, licensed/unlicensed was rotary. It works, ships are running hard, sailing and staying on schedule. With less downtime. They have to.
MSC fails to acknowledge this much less see it.
MSC/usn suffers from the sickness called NIH, (Not Invented Here). The path they are on is not working. Everyone sees it.
Congress seems to have investigations concerning all manner of silly shit but they never seem to investigate MSC readiness and manning. Meanwhile they speak constantly about national security and ‘support our troops’? Geez…they’ll likely spend millions investigating a laptop and never consider the national security implications of not having a viable MSC. But…these are our elected morons
Concur, the roof near imploding on CLF mission readiness and more effort and resources expended to put a CIVMAR’S head in a black bag for misusing a government vehicle.
Just looked at the MSC website, the signon bonuses are pretty tempting right now.
Apply at your own risk.
But if you leave before 2 years they come after you for the money back.
Does anyone know what “mixed work schedule” means?
I never heard of it during the 17 years I was there And those bonuses are like the hiring bonuses truck companies pay You might get some up front but you won’t get it all right away And if you quit in disgust like most sane people you will lose any bonus paid and they will hound you to the ends of the earth to get it back
I had to find it again as I was curious too: MSC - Mixed Work Schedule
You can only work a max of 6 months per year. Which sounds ideal, so not sure why it is limited only to certain positions. Also, not eligible for any hiring bonus.
Yes you will. Per the job posting it is “paid as a lump sum at the beginning of employment with the Command, and requires a 2 year service agreement.”
Gotta have that modern indentured servitude to keep the labor force in line.
I remember seeing hiring bonuses on their website for certain billets after I left 20 years ago.
You get fucked out of a lot of benefits also, it appears. That’s probably the best they can do to offer commercial style work schedules without Congress changing the rules for federal employees to make an exception for CIVMARs.
Can anyone explain how the vessels are managed technically? Does MSC manage not just crew, but maint. scheduling, capex projects, refurbs, etc? Or does this come from MARAD or the US Navy? US Navy owns these ships, correct? MSC would be considered like an ISM or Manning company? From my understanding, it doesn’t seem like communication between crew, MSC and any technical 3rd party is present, can anyone explain or give more details?
This thread was primarily directed towards the Government owned Government Operated (GOGO) fleet which is owned, crewed and managed by military sealift command. These vessels are crewed by Civilian Mariners (CIVMARS) who are civilian employees of the Department of the Navy. These ships include the combat logistics force, hospital ships, fast transports and others.
Others in this thread have discussed their experiences on Government Owned, contract operated (GOCO) ships which are owned or long term chartered by MSC but are managed by ship management companies such as Crowley or Maersk with Contract Mariners (CONMARS) who are union members. These ships include some of the white hull spook ships and prepo ships.
The GOGO fleet is what I was talking about with regards to manpower collapse although I understand the unions have their own issues.