Might be time to blow the dust off your offshore ticket

Professional Mariner Forum
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[QUOTE=anchorman;49688]When we are stressed, depressed, or mad, we don’t always know what to do. You’re looking for help and that’s what we are here for. Here’s how to cope with strong emotions and calm yourself down. However, you have to remember that it’s always up to you. You can control yourself if you follow these instructions.

[B]Gently and quietly, breathe through your nose and back out through your mouth for as long as you’re angry or disturbed[/B]. If you feel light headed, slowly stop. However, if you are very emotional and breathing too fast, make yourself take slow long breaths and exhale slowly. Only use a paper lunch bag to breathe into to slow your system down, if that slow breathing fails.

[B]Try these when you are[/B]:
[ul]
[li]STRESSED: Read a book; take a warm bath; make light small-talk. Sip tea, coffee or warm milk. Try to think or do about something that relaxes you. Burn off energy: Consider [I]moderate[/I] walking, jogging or exercising. You can try shouting (please go to secret places, like toilet, first). Recommend terms include nonsense words. Shout “a day of fun” or “a night of fun” can make you have fun.[/li][li]TIRED: Relax and think of some happier times. Try a nap: set an alarm clock, though.[/li][li]ANGRY: Take a very cool bath, and think about your friends and family – and if you took it out on them, then say, “I’m so sorry! I was overreacting.”, and that should help![/li][li]EXCITED: Watch a movie; do something to have fun and laugh. Breathe slowly, relax and think of sleep and relaxing![/li][li]SCARED: Pray to Allah (God) Indeed, Allah is All-Seeing All-Hearing. Think about funny moments; laugh at yourself and realize your going to be scared or startled in a moment of surprise. If it is because of a scary movie, assure yourself: “That is not happening here and never will!”[/li][/ul]
[B]Shake your shoulders to release tension[/B].

[B]Talk to friends to forget about the stress[/B].
[B]
Then, shut the fuck up.[/B][/QUOTE]

That’s a little better.

22

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Well, ACE is still around and he wants the larger license. Sometimes the company would pressure Ace to get the larger 1600 ton license. Thing is, how does ACE get it. The 500/1600 ton test is the same. He has a 500 ton master already with 300 years of sea service to boot. He sends his application in to upgrade to 1600 ton Master and Voila!!! He has the 1600 ton Master license.

And Lee and Ace both die prematurely of heart disease for working f%^&&ed up hours and years of Fried Fridays and Two steak days a week! THE END!!

I hope this helped you understand.[/QUOTE]

Old Ace if he hasn’t succumbed to Fried Fridays and two Steak days will probably really be excited to learn that he could soon qualify for a 10,000 ton OSV license. Subchapter L or something like that.
We can only guess who was behind that rule change and the reasoning behind it. I said many years ago that sooner or later the USCG [bought and paid for by campaign contributions] will approve a OSV to be the same size as a VLCC and they’ll be manned by mariners whose qualifications are completing a “USCG Approved” in house training course. Like ACE !

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I await the next installment of “The Adventures of Capt Ace and Capt Lee”

K.C.

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[QUOTE=tengineer;49736][

Well, ACE is still around and he wants the larger license. Sometimes the company would pressure Ace to get the larger 1600 ton license. Thing is, how does ACE get it. The 500/1600 ton test is the same. He has a 500 ton master already with 300 years of sea service to boot. He sends his application in to upgrade to 1600 ton Master and Voila!!! He has the 1600 ton Master license.

And Lee and Ace both die prematurely of heart disease for working f%^&&ed up hours and years of Fried Fridays and Two steak days a week! THE END!!

I hope this helped you understand.[/QUOTE]

Old Ace if he hasn’t succumbed to Fried Fridays and two Steak days will probably really be excited to learn that he could soon qualify for a 10,000 ton OSV license. Subchapter L or something like that.
We can only guess who was behind that rule change and the reasoning behind it. I said many years ago that sooner or later the USCG [bought and paid for by campaign contributions] will approve a OSV to be the same size as a VLCC and they’ll be manned by mariners whose qualifications are completing a “USCG Approved” in house training course. Like ACE ![/QUOTE]

You may need to reread HR 3619…there is no limit of 10,000 tons on the new OSV license…that is just the point to which it can be restricted in tonnage, besides the obvious trade restriction. Unlimited tonnage of both OSV and subchapter I trade restrictions is it the works. The obvious thing to me, especially since I’ve had the OSV license and the unlimited - been through it all personally, is cutting the crap out that’s not needed and being able to upgrade. IMO has recognized this as well and are developing regulations in concert with reference to OSV’s. Contributing to Senators for attention in ones agenda is nothing new (you can insert Unions here) and can be traced back to the continental congress, but the OSV license today and the one under development is more training and assessment than what was required of unlimited mariners just a few years ago. I don’t see unlimited mariners doing what the OSV mariners are required to do either. Under old regulations, you could not achieve an unlimited Master on an OSV only (even if you took all the STCW 95 courses), now you can if you decide to go that route. That’s good for the mariner and industry.

© authorize any such master, mate, or engineer who also possesses an ocean or near coastal license and endorsement under such part that qualifies the licensed officer for service on non trade-restricted vessels of at least 1,600 gross tons but less than 3,000 gross tons, as measured under such section, to increase the tonnage limitation of such license and endorsement under section 402© of such part, using service on vessels certificated under both subchapters I and L of such title and measured only under such section, except that such tonnage limitation shall not exceed 10,000 gross tons as measured under such section.

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OK, now I get it an unlimited tonnage OSV. Another “trade restricted” license. You will soon be able to have a OSV carrying methanol, diesel, petroleum base mud in unlimited quantities and don’t even need a tankerman PIC? Someone of the background of Lee’s ‘fictional’ ACE could be in charge of one of these super tankers? Say it ain’t so.
Why for god’s sake can’t US mariners be held to the same standards of qualification as mariners in other first world countries? Are US mariners that dumb or lazy or are there other factors at work here???
I think we all know the answer to that question.
[That IMO has bought into lower standards doesn’t surprise me. They are toothless tigers anyway.]

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[QUOTE=tengineer;49778]OK, now I get it an unlimited tonnage OSV. Another “trade restricted” license. You will soon be able to have a OSV carrying methanol, diesel, petroleum base mud in unlimited quantities and don’t even need a tankerman PIC? Someone of the background of Lee’s ‘fictional’ ACE could be in charge of one of these super tankers? Say it ain’t so.
Why for god’s sake can’t US mariners be held to the same standards of qualification as mariners in other first world countries? Are US mariners that dumb or lazy or are there other factors at work here???
I think we all know the answer to that question.
[That IMO has bought into lower standards doesn’t surprise me. They are toothless tigers anyway.][/QUOTE]

I would welcome you to present an example of that theory - where an accident and/or casualty was caused as a result of someone holding a 6,000 ton OSV license ( a lower standard you say)…or anything at all…ANYTHING…throw me a bone so I can understand what I would be paying for if I bought a seat in your wagon…Now, that would surprise me, but I welcome an answer because I’m very curious as someone in the industry.

I do not consider myself dumb having had a trade restricted license.

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[QUOTE=anchorman;49789]
I do not consider myself dumb having had a trade restricted license.[/QUOTE]

I know how we can handle this. We can have a spelling contest between you and MrAdventure. The one with the most mispelled words wins. I must warn you, that you are up against some stiff competition.

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The problem with the contest is Anchorman has demonstrated he can use google, and thus has the advantage :wink:

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[QUOTE=anchorman;49789]I would welcome you to present an example of that theory - where an accident and/or casualty was caused as a result of someone holding a 6,000 ton OSV license ( a lower standard you say)…or anything at all…ANYTHING…throw me a bone so I can understand what I would be paying for if I bought a seat in your wagon…Now, that would surprise me, but I welcome an answer because I’m very curious as someone in the industry.

I do not consider myself dumb having had a trade restricted license.[/QUOTE]

No one ever said you were dumb except the people you work for, which is why they modify the rules to suit themselves. For years one of their arguments has been that they don’t have people who can pass the unlimited tests but the truth is they do not want to compete on an even playing field.
There are companies running unlimited vessels that pay for your school and pay you a day rate to attend it. They do this to keep a trained competent work force. The companies in the GOM just modify the rules, lower construction requirements, dumb down the mariner requirements all to save themselves some money and keep a captive ‘trade restricted’ work force.

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[QUOTE=tengineer;49889]No one ever said you were dumb except the people you work for, which is why they modify the rules to suit themselves. For years one of their arguments has been that they don’t have people who can pass the unlimited tests but the truth is they do not want to compete on an even playing field.
There are companies running unlimited vessels that pay for your school and pay you a day rate to attend it. They do this to keep a trained competent work force. The companies in the GOM just modify the rules, lower construction requirements, dumb down the mariner requirements all to save themselves some money and keep a captive ‘trade restricted’ work force.[/QUOTE]

I do not see the logic, other than name calling, as far as being called dumb, regardless of who they are. Maybe a certain action by a very smart person can be called dumb. I do dumb things all the time. Example, drinking tequila with Capt.Lee, or responding here now - I know it’s in vain even though I believe what I say is true.

Whenever things like this are posted, I do have a habit of responding for several reasons. (1) I did do every STCW class imaginable. Anyone can if they want. (2) I did start with the large OSV’s with the 6,000 ton license in 1997 (assessed many mariners since), and (3) I have not met one person from any academy or hawespipe that can honestly say that STCW classes past what is required of the OSV mariner develops a competent work force. I can tell you that most find a majority of the course work useless, and what many consider the most important is encompassed in what is required and will be required of any mariners on larger OSV’s.

I do realize that companies pay day rates for training. That is a great argument for benefits - not competence, and I do realize that most of the valuable training that you get - that is of real use - is not required at all for any license we carry. Unless you count your DP license for instance, or your high voltage certificate to name just a few.

I agree with a lot that you say, but the real truth and animosity is not because of the ability of the maritime work force. I see idiots with every damn certificate in the book, and that didn’t help them any. We’ve all seen them…more than I care to mention, but some smart as all hell too (which is generally god given, not regulated out)

The thought of having a lot of people available to either take your job for less or drive down your wage is the dynamic that pushes most people’s disagreement with what the OSV industry does. Valid point, but call a spade a fucking spade. Please don’t say it’s the damn training, or the building standards - neither hold any water once you start digging into which each one really means.

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[QUOTE=Flyer69;49802]The problem with the contest is Anchorman has demonstrated he can use google, and thus has the advantage ;)[/QUOTE]

Bing is my recent favorite

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[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;49800]I know how we can handle this. We can have a spelling contest between you and MrAdventure. The one with the most mispelled words wins. I must warn you, that you are up against some stiff competition.[/QUOTE]

I will loose.

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Please don’t say it’s the damn training, or the building standards - neither hold any water once you start digging into which each one really means.

You lost me there. What are you speaking of? Building standards I can discuss how they have been relaxed for the OSVs especially regarding watertight integrity and boundries. The tonnage calculation for OSVs is a joke as you well know.
Training? There are a lot of improvements that could be made. What would you suggest? What course of study differentiates the GOM mariner from his ocean going counterpart?
This is an excellent chance for those who have worked in all aspects of the business to have our say.
Take the lead Anchorman and others, tell us what you think.

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[QUOTE=tengineer;49922]Please don’t say it’s the damn training, or the building standards - neither hold any water once you start digging into which each one really means.

You lost me there. What are you speaking of? Building standards I can discuss how they have been relaxed for the OSVs especially regarding watertight integrity and boundries. The tonnage calculation for OSVs is a joke as you well know.
Training? There are a lot of improvements that could be made. What would you suggest? What course of study differentiates the GOM mariner from his ocean going counterpart?
This is an excellent chance for those who have worked in all aspects of the business to have our say.
Take the lead Anchorman and others, tell us what you think.[/QUOTE]

The ICLL Protocol is consulted for the most-current international requirements regarding watertight integrity and boundries by the class societies. OSV’s must follow those standards, same as everyone else to get the appropriate class designations and international certificates.

I agree that improvements in training can be made, but realizing that 90% of the most valuable training that you will use happen on each particular vessel, the associated vendor training, and what is required by the SMS and training matrix. There is not much value for an OSV mariner to do 2 weeks in a simulator for ship handling, 1 week of marine propulsion plants, and another 2 weeks of cargo ops when each class is structured around something that they will never see or care to do during their entire career.
A recent example of “valuable” training is sending all Siemens manuals and electrical drawings from a particular vessel to GMATS and have some of the best instructors in the industry develop a HV/MV/LV course and conduct that course on the vessel with hands-on training. Seeing interlocks in action and the troubleshooting/theory/safety behind it. That’s the only way to stay on top of technology. Same thing with with class approved preventative maintenance programs, like TM-Master V2, and the associated training needed.

There will never be a one-size-fits-all approach to training when comparing OSV’s to their Ocean counterparts, and it doesn’t make sense to consider working in that direction.
The obvious STCW courses that serves as a common denominator to all vessels is generally required of the OSV mariner and should remain.

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You guys are funny… I hope the GOM does some picking up. The east coast tug world is DEAD no one is hireing mates. I wouldnt mind getting on some sort of OSV and get some experience driving. Im very tired of being molly maid.

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[QUOTE=KennyW1983;50000]You guys are funny.[/QUOTE]

When ever I say that about someone my wife shoots back the line from “One bourbon one scotch” - .“everybody funny, now [I]you funny too”[/I]

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There will never be a one-size-fits-all approach to training when comparing OSV’s to their Ocean counterparts, and it doesn’t make sense to consider working in that direction.

Of course one-size-fits-all approach to training isn’t perfect, which is why one goes thru training when transferring from a container ship to a tanker etc. The unlimited license is a minimum requirement for learning but why are the standards lowered for OSVs?
How do they handle this in the North Sea, Australia and other first world countries where there are lots of rigs and OSVs. Did they lower the license standards there, do they have a “trade restricted” license which goes along with trade restricted pay?

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[QUOTE=tengineer;50023]There will never be a one-size-fits-all approach to training when comparing OSV’s to their Ocean counterparts, and it doesn’t make sense to consider working in that direction.

Of course one-size-fits-all approach to training isn’t perfect, which is why one goes thru training when transferring from a container ship to a tanker etc. The unlimited license is a minimum requirement for learning but why are the standards lowered for OSVs?
How do they handle this in the North Sea, Australia and other first world countries where there are lots of rigs and OSVs. Did they lower the license standards there, do they have a “trade restricted” license which goes along with trade restricted pay?[/QUOTE]

Why are unlimited US mariners only required to take 2 weeks of GMDSS, and not 4 weeks like the countries you mentioned? Is this a lower standard, in and of itself? Absolutely not. 4 weeks of GMDSS is just pure stupidity (I’m glad the USCG realized that one), and that’s basically the same argument. You can say all day long that more is automatically better, just for the fact that it’s more, and some will agree, but I choose not to. If there was absolute value in that thinking, I would be the first one to say so.

Even the Department of Motor Vehicles figured this one out early on. Most everyone has a restricted class D drivers license…Does the DMV make everyone get the motorcycle endorsements or a CDL just for the fact that it’s a perceived higher standard by tengineer, or because Crocodile Dundee does it like that in the Outback?

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[QUOTE=KennyW1983;50000]You guys are funny… I hope the GOM does some picking up. The east coast tug world is DEAD no one is hireing mates. I wouldnt mind getting on some sort of OSV and get some experience driving. Im very tired of being molly maid.[/QUOTE]

I just want to thank Senators Webb and Warner (Ds) of VA for voting against offshore drilling and against the economic benefits that drilling would bring despite the pleas of the Governor. You didn’t get my vote before and you definitely won’t get them next time around.

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[QUOTE=tengineer;50023]How do they handle this in the North Sea, Australia and other first world countries where there are lots of rigs and OSVs. Did they lower the license standards there, do they have a “trade restricted” license which goes along with trade restricted pay?[/QUOTE]

I know from experience that the Brit’s and Aussies also maintain a limted tonnage license, but not “trade restricted”. Their “Class 2” Master is basically the same as our 1600/3000(ITC) GRT Master. The next step up is “Class 1”, which is unlimited tonnage. The biggest difference is in the multiple paths the US mariner has open as they move up the ladder, and that is the single most confusing thing when working on foriegn vessels, getting them to understand what our ticket actually means. I dealt with a lot of confusion with the whole 1600(Domestic)/3000(ITC) line on mine.

It is my understanding that the USCG is making moves to bring our licensing in line with the more common aproaches taken by the rest of the world. IMHO, I think this will work out to be a good thing.