[QUOTE=tugsailor;70500]I certainly agree that mariners should have the broadest possible range of experiences and skill sets, and that different vessels in different trades, of different sizes, all require different skill sets. No practical licensing system can assure that everyone is actually qualified to do everything. However, that does not mean that real experience on small vessels is of absolutely no value, and should not be counted at all toward unlimited licenses, or that large tonnage vessel experience as an OS or AB (or even a mate), by itself, is a qualification to actually be the Master of a small vessel. Seamanship is seamanship. Once one has the skill set for one type of vessel, they should have the ability to learn the skill set for others much more quickly.
The fact that a deep sea 2nd Mate is automatically qualified (after a mickey mouse limited multiple choice exam) for Master 1600 is a joke.
The notion that a 22 year old academy grad with only 120 days of seatime on a training ship under his belt is qualified to be a 3rd Mate on an unlimited tonnage ship is also a joke.
The notion that a 40 year old,199 GRT tug master with10 years of ocean towing experience can never become qualified as 3rd Mate without spending three more years sweeping, mopping, chipping, and painting on a large tonnage ship is also a joke.
You make an excellent points about the acceptable levels of risk on larger vessels, and about the inadequacy of chart plotting customs on smaller vessels. Tug personnel are pushed into routinely taking risks that would never be acceptable on a ship. The inability of deep sea personnel to handle those same risks is why they often fail (sometimes with a panic followed by a crash). I learned a lot from my academy grad mates on tugs about how to keep a properly labeled plot like a deep sea ship. Not every small vessel mariner has had the opportunity. This points out the appropriateness of requiring some unlimited tonnage seatime and training for an unlimited tonnage license. These issues could adequately be addressed by six months of large tonnage seatime, and/or a good 30 day BRM and watchkeeping simulator course. But this concern does not require three more years of chipping and painting experience.
I have never taken a 100 ton license very seriously. It didn’t mean much years ago. It means a lot less now in this era of memorizing the outdated, well publicized, multiple choice questions. I have seen plenty of people with 100 tons licenses that could not even tie basic knots. The license doesn’t make the mariner.
There is a big difference between the fisherman’s son who has been tying knots and knocking about on boats since he was six years old, and the school teacher’s son who had never seen a boat before he arrived at KP, and only went to school there because it was free.
Most people would not think that sailing experience would be of any use in towing. However, I have noticed that tugboat men with sailing experience tend to know how to use the wind and the current to their advantage when handling barges much better than guys with no sailing experience. I have also noticed that deep sea experience is not adequate preparation for towing barges. One of the first things that the typical deep sea mate without much towing experience will do on a tug (if you don’t watch him like a hawk) is drag the tow wire on bottom by passing over shoals that are covered 10 or 15 fathoms.
Northern European licenses seem to garner more respect in international shipping circles than US licenses. Now that I see that the British MCA is counting seatime on “ships” as small as 24 meters or 80 GT for OOW licenses (the international equivalent of our 2nd and 3rd mate), it makes that USCGs refusal to count any 199GRT seatime at all toward 3rd Mate seem even more unreasonable.
It seems really bizarre that I cannot get a US 3rd Mate license, but that I can probably get a British OOW. I’m going to find out if I can.[/QUOTE]
Well said - I know you’re right about deep sea mates dragging the wire on the bottom because I’ve done it.
As to your point about mariners with sailing experience, agreed, and I’ve made a similar observations about young mates with towing experience, they often have better sea sense then those without. It is possible to get a lot of deep-sea time on, for example, a container ship on the liner trade and remain almost brain-dead.
As to your point about picking up plotting from your academy mates - this is a separate issue but this is something where some hawepipe guys come up short. Seamanship is seamanship like you said but it is possible to master a job without understanding the principles that would enable them to shift to another sector. They sometimes are not able to step back and see the big picture. I think about the old-timer who taught me the Inside Passage, he didn’t care if he had a chart or not but if he was in an area he’d never seen he was lost.
I agree that it doesn’t make sense to sail AB to get a third mate’s license.
K.C.