Jones act and airlines


#61

#62

I could very well be misinformed but that particular site is not one I would go to for accurate info.


#63

I have no illusions that the US is ever going to be a major player in shipping between foreign nations.

However, it is in the vital national interest of the US to have the shipping for a reasonable portion of its own foreign trade. The US is the world’s largest consumer market for foreign goods and the world’s largest economy.

Few other countries would do well without the US providing their defense, and providing their exporters access to the US consumer market. It’s in the self interest of most of countries to keep the US economy and military strong.

The US cannot remain economically or militarily strong without healthy manufacturing and basic industries, including ship building and shipping. The US cannot survive as a society that only creates technology and art, has most of the population doing “service” work, government job thumb twiddling, and sitting around collecting welfare, while more and more of the workforce is illiterate immigrants that do not assisimulate.

The US is following in the footsteps of the Roman Empire. It’s time to change course before it’s too late.


#64

Have you any actual knowledge of the wage structure for seafarers from developed countries? (Or your much “loved” 3rd world villagers for that matter)

It is not as simple as looking at the payment per day worked, but the entire pay packet, working conditions and benefits for US vs European seafarers.

Sounds like US seafarers are still treated like “casual labourers” on a day rate, “begging” for work at Union Halls, while European seafarers are on permanent employment with a monthly salary running 12 months/year. + holiday pay, health care, pension and other benefits guaranteed.

The Unions work as such for the benefit of the seafarers, not as “employment agents” for the Owners and for the benefit of the Union Bosses.

I personally haven’t benefited from this as I haven’t worked on European flag ships for many decades, but I can see the difference in the way things are done between European and other maritime industries.


#65

You are “very well misinformed”, but there are lots of sources of information available that you can rely upon.
This forum is becoming one of them.
PS> If you are interested and willing to learn, that is.

PPS> Where would you go for accurate shipping information?? (I hope not Fox News)


#66

I see the ads for European seafaring jobs that offer salaries at about 50 to 70 percent of the going US rates. Of course, I understand that after tax exemptions, free national healthcare, free college education, etc, etc, that the total compensation package is much higher.

Parts of Europe have very reasonable living costs, but other parts, Norway in particular, have a very high cost of living. Very expensive rents. Very expensive food and beverages. Very expensive cars. Very expensive gas, etc , etc.

The cost of living like an American or in Europe is quite high, but the cost of living like a local can be much cheaper than in the US.

You don’t have to tell me about the downsides of seagoing employment in the US.


#67

Fox News - hah! I go to bbc for my daily dose of news. I was just pointing out that site is owned and operated by folks from India and may be skewed.


#68

The US is a major player in the shipping world, just that the ships are not US flagged. You’ll be shocked and aghast to know the amount of ships and/or the tonnage that the bank JP Morgan owns and operates, all FoC, but still enjoying the US tax benefits, with no advantage accruing to either the US sailor and/or the US tax payer. The current tax bill going through the US govt exacerbates that injuctice even more.

Of course, it’s even more insulting to the US flag that FoCs like Liberia, etc are owned and operated by US cos on US soil. Yet, they’ll proudly display the US flag on their coat lapels.

That’s a pipe dream when you’ve the Republicans in control and allow lobbyists controlling how tax laws are written in USA, all favoring the corps (the current tax law being negotiated as the most glaring example). That ship sailed when G W Bush diluted that requirement (I forget which bill and Act that was and I’m too busy to research it as I leave for my ship this week) but, I do remember the Obama administration fighting in supporting the US flag ((this link) and that this was lobbied for by OXFAM, the British aid group. Oxfam won, we lost.

That ship too sailed, especially when G W Bush gave the red carpet welcome to the Chinese into the WTO and encouraged outsourcing. With the current tax rate for corps being negotiated to 20% the tax rate v/s that a genuine SBO would pay, there’s no longer any incentive to jump through the state and federal regulations hoops and manufacture. This is a country where the lobyyists (The Republican controlled US Chamber of Commerce) have lobbied and won for any co with a 1000 strong employee base to be deemed, counted and treated as a small business. (I can give you examples, but then I’d be opening myself to law suits in this very litigious country.)

Again, too late. History is repeating itself and we are walking in the footsteps of the British Empire.


#69

And any site owned and operated from USA tell only gospel truth??
Give me a break!!!

PS> BBC is owned by the British Government, but are still critical to their Owner at times. Unbelievable, isn’t it??


#70

So, just 'coz the site is owned and operated by Indians and targeted to give out info to their own country men is reason sufficient enough to be giving out skewed news/info, huh! Since that site is non-Westerner operated, ergo untrustworthy, right?

What about the US owned and operated news sites which blatantly push out misleading and false information? What about the role of FB in the last presidential elections in pushing out false news? Since that site is Westerner operated, ergo trustworthy, right?

That’s your logic?

Racist much!


#71

Since he prefers & trusts US owned and operated websites, maybe this link will meet his criteria?

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-salaries-in-the-merchant-navy-in-India

You can’t argue with an Univan employee (provided you know who and what Univan is).


#72

Empires rise and fall. Developments that have taken over a half century to evolve cannot be easily reversed given the gridlock in our political system. Our elected officials and the lobbyists who support them don’t have the vision to look beyond the next quarter’s profits. The current administration’s efforts to turn back the clock will be undone by the next administration, the political pendulum will swing again and the overall decline will continue while China eats our lunch. Momentum’s a bitch.


#73

Maybe Lacs (or Lakh)needs an explanation?

Exchange rate: 1 USD = INR 64 (Approx.)

IOW; An Indian Master with Univan can expect to earn USD 7,800 - 12,500 pm.
I assume that is per month on board, not monthly salary for 12 mth/yr. as for Europeans??


#74

Yes, per month with slightly less than half when at home (at least that’s what the few Indian sailors that I know told me)

As you stated above, that 3rd world sailor does not have to go to the union for a job, as his job is secure with the shipping line/operator that he works for, and neither is that 3rd world sailor dying while on the beach, dependent on the lousy unemployment and right to work policies of the state that he/shipping operator lives in/incorporated.


#75

No I am not racist. I love everybody.

The site is crap and that is that.

I watch the BBC because it is about the only news site without bias.


#76

I was in Israel a few months back, and to my dismay:

  1. Israel was expensive. I could barely buy anything for my family BUT buying gold and silver in Israel was cheaper than buying in USA.

  2. Same Chinese shit in Israel as in USA. Bah!


#77

Words say otherwise. But, who cares!

Whatever. It gives relevant info to the targeted audience and it’s their opinion which matters the most.

Then try Al-Jazeera. Even more in-depth and, I found it to be better than BBC. I grew up in Asia and on BBC. BBC is over rated.


#78

No one here mentioned European seafarers and they aren’t really germane to this conversation.

Either you didn’t understand what was being said or you are intentionally misconstruing it in order to troll, and you’re a smart guy so I doubt you misunderstood.


#79

It was tugsailor who brought in the pay parity between the US sailors and sailors from other countries and that’s what we all are (incl you) responding to.

Why is it not germane to this conversation?

Discussing the Jones Act and US manufacturing is senseless if you do not include the workers and their quality of lives spent in making the Jones Act and US manufacturing possible. You can pontificate as much as you want on the Jones Act and airlines if the workers who make all this possible are not suitably compensated.

I fly in and out of airports (int’l and local) at least 3 times a year. I’ve yet to see a happy and a smiling US crew member of any US flagged airline v/s that of a foreign airline. Not even on a plane.

I don’t see or read about the CEOs and the high ranking management of these int’l shipping cos and airlines, suffering and bitching and moaning about US levels of compensation. Have you? Yet, the US based shipping and airline are all for local protections for their cos, as it protects their millions, while ignoring the deck/floor level crew who make it all possible.

The point is that the Jones Act, US airlines and US manufacturing would be much stronger (as was the case before Ronald Reagan) if there was a current parity of purchasing power (or a semblance of it) between a non-US crew member and that of an US crew member. Not to mention the Happiness Index, which all ignore.


#80

He wasn’t talking about well paid Western Europeans though. The point was, if we require a minimum wage that all seafarers be paid on ships entering US ports then it decreases the incentive for owners to hire 3rd world villagers (or Eastern Europeans) over US mariners because they can’t pay the villagers as little as they otherwise could so they wouldn’t be saving as much money.