International pay

[QUOTE=tengineer1;141833]Social Security has never missed a payment and always paid what they promised. If one thinks there may be a problem with proper funding for social security in the future I would suggest writing their congressmen. I have many friends with 401k plans that lost 50% of their value exactly when they retired in 2009. The much maligned social security and their pensions kept right on paying. The dislike and BS propaganda regarding the social security program originates from the corporations since they are required to match your contribution. These guys do not like to contribute any money they cannot control or use as collateral for a loan which is why they also hate pensions. I am old enough to remember when having a pension was normal. Now one is very fortunate to have any money left to save for retirement. Those of us who work in the maritime industry are EXTREMELY lucky that we make a very good wage and can save. It’s not like we are all that smart or highly educated, we are in a niche industry at the right time is all and it could all disappear tomorrow. I was around in the 80’s when it did. You could buy a really nice home or vehicle very cheap from plenty of former mariners.[/QUOTE]

Well that is exactly right. Thxs & Bravo

[QUOTE=tengineer1;141833]Social Security has never missed a payment and always paid what they promised. If one thinks there may be a problem with proper funding for social security in the future I would suggest writing their congressmen. I have many friends with 401k plans that lost 50% of their value exactly when they retired in 2009. The much maligned social security and their pensions kept right on paying. The dislike and BS propaganda regarding the social security program originates from the corporations since they are required to match your contribution. These guys do not like to contribute any money they cannot control or use as collateral for a loan which is why they also hate pensions. I am old enough to remember when having a pension was normal. Now one is very fortunate to have any money left to save for retirement. Those of us who work in the maritime industry are EXTREMELY lucky that we make a very good wage and can save. It’s not like we are all that smart or highly educated, we are in a niche industry at the right time is all and it could all disappear tomorrow. I was around in the 80’s when it did. You could buy a really nice home or vehicle very cheap from plenty of former mariners.[/QUOTE]

Well put sir. On another note, Medicare IMHO is way too important to be left out of this discussion.

It’s not an argument, social security has paid out up until this point. The question left unanswered is will that trend continue. Social Security is supposed to have a 2.3 trillion dollar trust fund to pay out the money which is taken from the employer and employee. This is supposed to be set aside and not included as part of the federal budget. However, our government has borrowed against that trust to increase their budget and that 2.3T is no more. They are supplementing social security deficits with tax dollars right now. This is why social security payments are in question if the national debt limit is not increased further.

When I see a country like australia ( net exporter of energy) with very low debt, say pensions and free medical will be turned off in 20 years you know everyone else only has a ponzi scheme…
Ozzies have over 1.6 trillion dollars in their super annuation yet the burden on the government by those that dont have sufficient is escalating hence the above comment by the treasurer who just projected the graphs forward.
The majority in the western counties are not going to live as well as their parents and certainly not in retirement.

^^^ what he said.

Repeat after me, kids :
“FUTURE UNFUNDED LIABILITY”

[QUOTE=tengineer1;141833]Social Security has never missed a payment and always paid what they promised. If one thinks there may be a problem with proper funding for social security in the future I would suggest writing their congressmen. I have many friends with 401k plans that lost 50% of their value exactly when they retired in 2009. The much maligned social security and their pensions kept right on paying. The dislike and BS propaganda regarding the social security program originates from the corporations since they are required to match your contribution. These guys do not like to contribute any money they cannot control or use as collateral for a loan which is why they also hate pensions. I am old enough to remember when having a pension was normal. Now one is very fortunate to have any money left to save for retirement. Those of us who work in the maritime industry are EXTREMELY lucky that we make a very good wage and can save. It’s not like we are all that smart or highly educated, we are in a niche industry at the right time is all and it could all disappear tomorrow. I was around in the 80’s when it did. You could buy a really nice home or vehicle very cheap from plenty of former mariners.[/QUOTE]

Pension’s can be lost and stolen as well from the same greedy corporations that don’t like paying social security

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021850345

[QUOTE=JW-Oceans;141802]DSC… Please explain more! I work shoreside in a foreign country[/QUOTE]

By no means am I a tax expert. However I can tell you my experience. I have a friend of mine who works land side in a foreign country. The parent company he works for has subsidiaries in foreign lands. That being said he works for the subsidiary in a foreign country. He is paid by the subsidiary company which is based in that country.

This makes him a U.S. citizen employed by a foreign company while his work place is also in a foreign country. He maintains a residence there and one here in the U.S… He only spends 21-30 ( I forget the actual number) days a year in the states. This allows him tax exemption on his first 80k. However if he spends more than that time in the states he is taxed on it.

Additionally if his plane leaves the ground at 1315 en route to the states then that is when his time begins. If it takes 2 days to fly here then 2 days back for example then that is 4 days he has lost.

Hope this helps.

[QUOTE=Dsc;141894]
Additionally if his plane leaves the ground at 1315 en route to the states then that is when his time begins. If it takes 2 days to fly here then 2 days back for example then that is 4 days he has lost. [/QUOTE]

Disagree. The time starts when you arrive in the States (note the stamp on your Passport) and ends when you leave. You are allowed 30 days in the States in a 360 day period. If your period abroad spans 2 tax years, for example June to June, you prorate the exclusion over each of the 2 tax years. It is not hard to read the IRS Publications. Any foreign income taxes you pay are counted against what you owe in the US as a deduction. Those were the rules when I did the ex-Pat stuff.

[QUOTE=ChiefRob;141869]Pension’s can be lost and stolen as well from the same greedy corporations that don’t like paying social security

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021850345[/QUOTE]

True. The Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp was established to insure pensions against these bad actors but it is woefully underfunded because they cannot set the insurance premium rates the companies pay. Only Congress can do that and we all know who owns Congress.
Now they are just freezing pensions. Say you work at a company thru the good times and bad because you are promised a pension. You turned down jobs at other companies because you have a pension where you are but then suddenly your company says, no more! We are freezing your pension. I understand Transocean just did that.

That’s why I put all my retirement money into lottery tickets instead. Just kidding. But would putting your money into something like a Roth IRA be a good idea. I have to start learning about this stuff.

Disagree…The count of 330 days starts the next day when you arrived the foreign country ( note the stamp on ur passport by foreign country then the counts starts the following day ) Forget about the 30 days inside the US !! 330 days in foreign country is u need to get the tax exclusion not including the air or sea travel…it is all here if u want to be sure…Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - Physical Presence Test

You meet the physical presence test if you are physically present in a foreign country or countries 330 full days during a period of 12 consecutive months. The 330 qualifying days do not have to be consecutive. The physical presence test applies to both U.S. citizens and resident aliens.

The physical presence test is based only on how long you stay in a foreign country or countries. This test does not depend on the kind of residence you establish, your intentions about returning to the United States, or the nature and purpose of your stay abroad. However, your intentions with regard to the nature and purpose of your stay abroad are relevant in determining whether you meet the tax home test explained under Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.
330 Full Days

Generally, to meet the physical presence test, you must be physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during the 12-month period. You can count days you spent abroad for any reason. You do not have to be in a foreign country only for employment purposes. You can be on vacation time.

You do not meet the physical presence test if illness, family problems, a vacation, or your employer’s orders cause you to be present for less than the required amount of time. Also, if you are present in a foreign country in violation of U.S. law, you will not be treated as physically present in a foreign country while you were in violation of the law. Income that you earn from sources within such a country for services performed during a period of violation does not qualify as foreign earned income.

However, the minimum time requirement can be waived if you must leave a foreign country because of war, civil unrest, or similar adverse conditions in that country. You must be able to show that you reasonably could have expected to meet the minimum time requirements if not for the adverse conditions, and that you had a tax home in the foreign country and were a bona fide resident of, or physically present in, the foreign country on or before the beginning date of the waiver.

Full Day

A full day is a period of 24 consecutive hours, beginning at midnight. You must spend each of the 330 full days in a foreign country. When you leave the United States to go directly to a foreign country or when you return directly to the United States from a foreign country, the time you spend on or over international waters does not count toward the 330-day total.
Example:

You leave the United States for France by air on June 10. You arrive in France at 9:00 a.m. on June 11. Your first full day in France is June 12.
Passing Over Foreign Country

If, in traveling from the United States to a foreign country, you pass over a foreign country before midnight of the day you leave, the first day you can count toward the 330-day total is the day following the day you leave the United States.
Example:

You leave the United States by air at 9:30 a.m. on June 10 to travel to Spain. You pass over a part of France at 11:00 p.m. on June 10 and arrive in Spain at 12:30 a.m. on June 11. Your first full day in a foreign country is June 11.
Change Of Location

You can move about from one place to another in a foreign country or to another foreign country without losing full days. But if any part of your travel is not within a foreign country or countries and takes 24 hours or more, you will lose full days.
Example 1:

You leave London by air at 11:00 p.m. on July 6 and arrive in Stockholm at 5:00 a.m. on July 7. Your trip takes less than 24 hours and you lose no full days.
Example 2:

You leave Norway by ship at 10:00 p.m. on July 6 and arrive in Portugal at 6:00 a.m. on July 8. Since your travel is not within a foreign country or countries and the trip takes more than 24 hours, you lose as full days July 6, 7, and 8. If you remain in Portugal, your next full day in a foreign country is July 9.
In United States while in Transit

If you are in transit between two points outside the United States and are physically present in the United States for less than 24 hours, you are not treated as present in the United States during the transit. You are treated as traveling over areas not within any foreign country.
How To Figure The 12-month Period

There are four rules you should know when figuring the 12-month period:

Your 12-month period can begin with any day of the month. It ends the day before the same calendar day, 12 months later
Your 12-month period must be made up of consecutive months. Any 12-month period can be used if the 330 days in a foreign country fall within that period
You do not have to begin your 12-month period with your first full day in a foreign country or to end it with the day you leave. You can choose the 12-month period that gives you the greatest exclusion
In determining whether the 12-month period falls within a longer stay in the foreign country, 12-month periods can overlap one another

Example 1:

You are a construction worker who works from time to time in a foreign country over a 20-month period. You might pick up the 330 full days in a 12-month period only during the middle months of the time you work in the foreign country because the first few and last few months of the 20-month period are broken up by long visits to the United States.
Example 2:

You work in New Zealand for a 20-month period from January 1, 2011, through August 31, 2012, except that you spend 28 days in February 2011 and 28 days in February 2012 on vacation in the United States. You are present in New Zealand 330 full days during each of the following two 12-month periods: January 1, 2011 - December 31, 2011, and September 1, 2011 - August 31, 2012. By overlapping the 12-month periods in this way, you meet the physical presence test for the whole 20-month period. Refer to Chapter 4, Figure 4-B in Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;141916]Disagree. The time starts when you arrive in the States (note the stamp on your Passport) and ends when you leave. You are allowed 30 days in the States in a 360 day period. If your period abroad spans 2 tax years, for example June to June, you prorate the exclusion over each of the 2 tax years. It is not hard to read the IRS Publications. Any foreign income taxes you pay are counted against what you owe in the US as a deduction. Those were the rules when I did the ex-Pat stuff.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;141916]Disagree. The time starts when you arrive in the States (note the stamp on your Passport) and ends when you leave. You are allowed 30 days in the States in a 360 day period. If your period abroad spans 2 tax years, for example June to June, you prorate the exclusion over each of the 2 tax years. It is not hard to read the IRS Publications. Any foreign income taxes you pay are counted against what you owe in the US as a deduction. Those were the rules when I did the ex-Pat stuff.[/QUOTE]

Disagree…The count of 330 days starts the next day when you arrived the foreign country ( note the stamp on ur passport by foreign country then the counts starts the following day ) Forget about the 30 days inside the US !! 330 days in foreign country is u need to get the tax exclusion not including the air or sea travel…it is all here if u want to be sure…Foreign Earned Income Exclusion - Physical Presence Test

You meet the physical presence test if you are physically present in a foreign country or countries 330 full days during a period of 12 consecutive months. The 330 qualifying days do not have to be consecutive. The physical presence test applies to both U.S. citizens and resident aliens.

The physical presence test is based only on how long you stay in a foreign country or countries. This test does not depend on the kind of residence you establish, your intentions about returning to the United States, or the nature and purpose of your stay abroad. However, your intentions with regard to the nature and purpose of your stay abroad are relevant in determining whether you meet the tax home test explained under Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.
330 Full Days

Generally, to meet the physical presence test, you must be physically present in a foreign country or countries for at least 330 full days during the 12-month period. You can count days you spent abroad for any reason. You do not have to be in a foreign country only for employment purposes. You can be on vacation time.

You do not meet the physical presence test if illness, family problems, a vacation, or your employer’s orders cause you to be present for less than the required amount of time. Also, if you are present in a foreign country in violation of U.S. law, you will not be treated as physically present in a foreign country while you were in violation of the law. Income that you earn from sources within such a country for services performed during a period of violation does not qualify as foreign earned income.

However, the minimum time requirement can be waived if you must leave a foreign country because of war, civil unrest, or similar adverse conditions in that country. You must be able to show that you reasonably could have expected to meet the minimum time requirements if not for the adverse conditions, and that you had a tax home in the foreign country and were a bona fide resident of, or physically present in, the foreign country on or before the beginning date of the waiver.

Full Day

A full day is a period of 24 consecutive hours, beginning at midnight. You must spend each of the 330 full days in a foreign country. When you leave the United States to go directly to a foreign country or when you return directly to the United States from a foreign country, the time you spend on or over international waters does not count toward the 330-day total.
Example:

You leave the United States for France by air on June 10. You arrive in France at 9:00 a.m. on June 11. Your first full day in France is June 12.
Passing Over Foreign Country

If, in traveling from the United States to a foreign country, you pass over a foreign country before midnight of the day you leave, the first day you can count toward the 330-day total is the day following the day you leave the United States.
Example:

You leave the United States by air at 9:30 a.m. on June 10 to travel to Spain. You pass over a part of France at 11:00 p.m. on June 10 and arrive in Spain at 12:30 a.m. on June 11. Your first full day in a foreign country is June 11.
Change Of Location

You can move about from one place to another in a foreign country or to another foreign country without losing full days. But if any part of your travel is not within a foreign country or countries and takes 24 hours or more, you will lose full days.
Example 1:

You leave London by air at 11:00 p.m. on July 6 and arrive in Stockholm at 5:00 a.m. on July 7. Your trip takes less than 24 hours and you lose no full days.
Example 2:

You leave Norway by ship at 10:00 p.m. on July 6 and arrive in Portugal at 6:00 a.m. on July 8. Since your travel is not within a foreign country or countries and the trip takes more than 24 hours, you lose as full days July 6, 7, and 8. If you remain in Portugal, your next full day in a foreign country is July 9.
In United States while in Transit

If you are in transit between two points outside the United States and are physically present in the United States for less than 24 hours, you are not treated as present in the United States during the transit. You are treated as traveling over areas not within any foreign country.
How To Figure The 12-month Period

There are four rules you should know when figuring the 12-month period:

Your 12-month period can begin with any day of the month. It ends the day before the same calendar day, 12 months later
Your 12-month period must be made up of consecutive months. Any 12-month period can be used if the 330 days in a foreign country fall within that period
You do not have to begin your 12-month period with your first full day in a foreign country or to end it with the day you leave. You can choose the 12-month period that gives you the greatest exclusion
In determining whether the 12-month period falls within a longer stay in the foreign country, 12-month periods can overlap one another

Example 1:

You are a construction worker who works from time to time in a foreign country over a 20-month period. You might pick up the 330 full days in a 12-month period only during the middle months of the time you work in the foreign country because the first few and last few months of the 20-month period are broken up by long visits to the United States.
Example 2:

You work in New Zealand for a 20-month period from January 1, 2011, through August 31, 2012, except that you spend 28 days in February 2011 and 28 days in February 2012 on vacation in the United States. You are present in New Zealand 330 full days during each of the following two 12-month periods: January 1, 2011 - December 31, 2011, and September 1, 2011 - August 31, 2012. By overlapping the 12-month periods in this way, you meet the physical presence test for the whole 20-month period. Refer to Chapter 4, Figure 4-B in Publication 54, Tax Guide for U.S. Citizens and Resident Aliens Abroad.

If you guys wanted to claim that exclusion, you need to read & understand it completely, I have one guy on board & got audited. The IRS is trying to get him because he doesn’t know the rules about this exclusion or maybe the auditor doesn’t know the rules/law about this tax exclusion… Good thing that he told me his situation & I knew that in IRS website (http://www.irs.gov/Individuals/International-Taxpayers/Foreign-Earned-Income-Exclusion) he is qualified to claim it…he told that to the auditor & he never heard again from him when he told what the IRS website is saying about this exclusion.

[QUOTE=Chief Seadog;141916]Disagree. The time starts when you arrive in the States (note the stamp on your Passport) and ends when you leave. You are allowed 30 days in the States in a 360 day period. If your period abroad spans 2 tax years, for example June to June, you prorate the exclusion over each of the 2 tax years. It is not hard to read the IRS Publications. Any foreign income taxes you pay are counted against what you owe in the US as a deduction. Those were the rules when I did the ex-Pat stuff.[/QUOTE]

if you wanted to do that 30 days in the states counting , you need to include your travel days & do not pass the 30 days to make sure that you will get the 330 full days presence in foreign country.

Wouldn’t being on a foreign vessel or aircraft count as being in the other country still though. You are still in that country’s sovereign territory.

What country does your passport say you are in…

[QUOTE=miami;141952]Example:

You leave the United States for France by air on June 10. You arrive in France at 9:00 a.m. on June 11. Your first full day in France is June 12.

Passing Over Foreign Country

If, in traveling from the United States to a foreign country, you pass over a foreign country before midnight of the day you leave, the first day you can count toward the 330-day total is the day following the day you leave the United States.
[/QUOTE]

From your examples above (and my experience) your first full day in France is likely to be June 11th, not June 12th. Most flights from the US to Europe enter Canadian air space even those from Florida. The same for Asian destinations depending what city you depart. This effectively ends the time in the US not long after you take off. I agree the day you arrive and depart the States counts towards the 30 days allowed (since it is a midnight to midnight clock) but no other days are lost…if your smart.

[QUOTE=tengineer1;141833]Social Security has never missed a payment and always paid what they promised. If one thinks there may be a problem with proper funding for social security in the future I would suggest writing their congressmen. I have many friends with 401k plans that lost 50% of their value exactly when they retired in 2009. The much maligned social security and their pensions kept right on paying. The dislike and BS propaganda regarding the social security program originates from the corporations since they are required to match your contribution. These guys do not like to contribute any money they cannot control or use as collateral for a loan which is why they also hate pensions. I am old enough to remember when having a pension was normal. Now one is very fortunate to have any money left to save for retirement. Those of us who work in the maritime industry are EXTREMELY lucky that we make a very good wage and can save. It’s not like we are all that smart or highly educated, we are in a niche industry at the right time is all and it could all disappear tomorrow. I was around in the 80’s when it did. You could buy a really nice home or vehicle very cheap from plenty of former mariners.[/QUOTE]

Well said! Medicare must be supplying you with medical grade marijuana, too. I am 26 years away from my full retirement and and 29 if I go to 70. I max out my social security every year and that is matched like you said in addition to the 1% tax imposed on me because of my income. Sure doesn’t sound like much, but 6.5% plus the employer match, the 1.5% for old age tax then then 1%, equals 17%. If I just bought gold or silver it would be better return than what I have to look forward to with SS…that is “IF” they pay. Which they won’t. I didn’t say that 401K was the answer, but it is a savings vehicle that we have to use to receive the employer match. That is just the facts.

Writing your congressman is not going to change social security. I won’t get too political about this, but it is bull$*&t. I don’t care who you are or how much money you make, depending on social security for your retirement is ludacris.

I have to agree about the fortunate part. There are definitely sharper pencils in the box. I am very grateful for my job and my income, but it comes at a price. I earn every penny I make and I am sure other members of this forum do also. We sacrifice our freedom and lives to provide for our families and the nicer things that makes our time away from home worth the effort.

Enjoy your SS benefits while they last.

People get confused about how social security is designed. It is not an investment program. We are paying into SS now so that those who are now drawing SS get paid. When we retire we will be drawing from the contributions of the current workers. The SS Trust fund is excess taxes that were collected and never paid out hence held in trust. IF the trust fund goes bankrupt it will have little bearing on SS. The trust fund helps thru some lean times but was NEVER created to fund SS. The only way SS will not pay in future years is if the economy totally tanks and no one is paying in, of course if the economy totally tanks your 401k will also be worthless too. The best way to keep social security paying the full amount is to have good paying jobs and near full employment so that there is more contributions to pay the retirees of the future. There are other things that could be done too like raising the cap on contributions. Yes, I have paid in more than I will ever get back but I did not pay it in to get it back because it was not and never has been an investment program. I also pay property taxes that support schools no one in my family attends and maintains roads I never drive on. It is what we pay for living in a civilized society.

The time will come when SS takes in less than it pays out. The trust is supposed to cover that inequality so those that paid in will receive the full benefit promised. If this were not the case SS would be taking in more than is necessary and should be %'s should be reduced or benefits increased. As it stands SS has taken in 2.3T more than it has paid out. This should make the plan solvent for 100’s of years. Without the trust the government is forced to move deficit money to cover the payments due. That is happening now. Where is the trust money?