Ive worked with plenty of AB Unlimited guys that have only been on the bridge to get their stuff signed off. Also worked with excellent academy grads. I’ve also worked with the opposite.
So have I, especially on supply boats with two officers on the bridge where the ABs don’t stand bridge watch underway. But on deep sea ships ABs stand a bridge watch, at least at night. Usually the ones interested in pursuing a license start paying attention and learning.
Most academy grads I know are very good at their jobs. That doesn’t mean they have the experience to have a master’s license after a year of sea time as mate.
I don’t think either have the experience to be master after one year of sea time as mate, it’s just that the average academy grad has less experience than the average hawsepiper.
Get rid of the unlimited license loophole and require the same sea time (at least OICNW sea time) for unlimited license holders as for limited license holders.
A 1,600 master license requires 720 days as mate unless you have an unlimited license. Unlimited license holders aren’t special and there’s no reason to allow them to get the license with less sea time.
I am realistic about wages. The maritime wages are horrible from what they used to be. You can make just as much if not more as a plumber or electrician than you can as a third mate.
Most colleges are bigger and filled with more majors like social work and teaching that don’t pay anything. Any school with engineering as 75% of is obviously gonna rate well. Look at those other school on the list for ROI and look at how many non engineering majors they have… that’s impressive. Look at their engineers and depending on the school they will make more.
But getting an engineering degree from a cheaper state school and factor in some unique coops in a specific area …. You’ll make more than a maritime grad by a lot.
There are plenty of real mariners in any town with a working waterfront or a lot of boats just about anywhere in the World.
Lots of deep sea mariners come from those kinds of towns or live in them now.
I don’t sail deep sea , so I don’t know, but I think most deep sea guys are probably real mariners.
In my opinion, anyone that is ONLY doing it temporarily for the money, is not a real Mariner.
I think that’s clear enough.
A Third Mate fresh out of school is an apprentice learning a trade. He is not entitled to big money yet.
It’s simple. Change everything to the STCW rules. For the national endorsement get rid of the pointless or confusing 9 exams that have nothing to do with your job. You already take a shit ton of classes or have to get a shit ton of sign offs to even get to the point of sitting for the exam. Just eliminate that shit.
When I had the sea time to upgrade to 3rd Mate from AB, I had as much time on the bridge as someone going for an unlimited Master’s license (from the academy).
If you come up through SIU, you are a bridge watchstander. Even as an OS, you are “specially trained” because you have RFPNW and will stand a bridge watch.
AB-Maintenance gets paid more, thus the older and more experienced ABs take those jobs. To imply an AB Unlimited only goes to the bridge to get things “signed off” is wildly misinformed.
That would be even better. So three years as OICNW to get master 1,600 unless you get at least a year as chief mate (or only mate on a two watch boat).
I don’t agree with eliminating the exams though. Assessments are too easy to get pencil whipped and the classes are too hard to fail. We need some checks and balances.
… or 360 days as 1,600 Mate, serving as Mate of Tow with a 1,600 Mate license, attainable in a 2 year trade school. https://www.dco.uscg.mil/Portals/9/NMC/pdfs/checklists/mcp_fm_nmc5_06_web.pdf
1,600 ton mate ocean which requires a year of sea time as OICNW (unless you’re a school grad).
Also, I think they should get rid of that gimme as well. There should be no way to get a 1,600 ton master license with less than 720 days as OICNW.
This is not an entry level job you’d take out of school though, that’s a senior level position, no one is taking that out of school. Sailing folk looking to go shoreside don’t even qualify.
An OS is an apprentice, A 3rd mate is a shift supervisor of sort, Companies aren’t paying you to learn a job, they’re paying you to do the job. They aren’t God’s Gift to the Industry, and are usually a dime a dozen, but not an apprentice. They should be on par with a Boatswain or Streward pay wise.
By the way, they have largely done this by requiring the full amount of sea time for II/2 and not just giving it to anyone with a 1,600 ton master anymore. Now it’s up to the companies to run their boats legally, though many of these companies don’t seem to understand what the legal requirements are (and their local OCMI frequently doesn’t either so if the company asks they get the wrong answer).
I agree. I know a lot of people that took or are taking the classes just because they know they would learn more that way and not get pencil whipped. Maybe make it a requirement that for the classes instead as in the extra classes. You still have required classes. Or make it a national requirement that 75% -100% of the signatures have to be completed by classroom instruction
Or better yet, do away with a million different private classes and really make it all STCW standards. Get rid of all the limited tonnage national carve outs. Seatime, RFPNW, OICNW and whatever else. I don’t see why we have carve outs for different types of ABs, or for OSV Mates, or a unique Towing license progression. I know why, because the industry advocates for it and it reduces training requirements and costs, I don’t think I agree with that whole scheme though. Just follow STCW.
Nope, the term you’re looking for is “Cadet”. Any mate is an officer who ends up in court when shit hits the fan
Let me ask this. Academy grads also graduate with a 100t Master license. Does that mean they are ready to be a Captain of a crewboat or ferry?
“Wildly misinformed”? As already pointed out Supply boats don’t have ABs on the bridge period. Their Unlimited ABs work on deck. You’ll find the same in the yachting industry. Many deep sea tankers have SIU guys who are “maintenance” only and never stand a bridge watch - and when they did they only cleaned, took out the trash, and kept the officer entertained with a conversation.
No they don’t.