H.R.3619 stcw student loans

Professional Mariner Forum
1

This bill passed but DID NOT have the provisions for stcw student loans in it.

http://maritime-executive.com/article/us-coast-guard-bill-passes/

“Though it is critical that the authorization passes, I am certainly disappointed that there were a number of provisions we had to drop from the House-passed bill in the final bill,” said Cummings. “Included among the dropped legislation were provisions I authored to create a student loan program specifically for maritime workers and provisions that would have encouraged efforts to support diversity at the Coast Guard Academy.

“Despite the loss of these programs, H.R. 3619 is a long overdue authorization for the Coast Guard and I urge my colleagues in the Senate it to pass it as soon as possible.”

still needs to be signed by president

2

Cummings was disappointed with that specifically, but there are Sallie Mae loans available at some schools already. It’s better to be with an employer that will foot the bill.

When the bill is signed the coming week by the President, the 6,000ton limit on OSV’s will be history as well.

3

I wonder who will be the Captain of the first 1000’ OSV? I wonder if he will be oceans or near coastal?

4

[QUOTE=anchorman;42534]Cummings was disappointed with that specifically, but there are Sallie Mae loans available at some schools already. It’s better to be with an employer that will foot the bill.

When the bill is signed the coming week by the President, the 6,000ton limit on OSV’s will be history as well.[/QUOTE]

How would I find out what schools take sallie mae?

5

[QUOTE=Capt. Lee;42535]I wonder who will be the Captain of the first 1000’ OSV? I wonder if he will be oceans or near coastal?[/QUOTE]

She will be a 21 year old Moldovian or Bulgarian with an unlimited master’s license endorsed by the USCG.

6

[QUOTE=Steamer;42566]She will be a 21 year old Moldovian or Bulgarian with an unlimited master’s license endorsed by the USCG.[/QUOTE]

No, it will be a good old boy from Lousiana or Mississippi and has worked for ECO for 25 years on nothing other than supply or anchorboats and has been through the “employer run” training program. It will NOT be a man who has been to a maritime academy or commanded ships in the merchant marine. Why do you think the OMSA wanted this so badly to get into the bill and fought to keep it from being removed? Simply, to disenfranchise the unlimited tonnage mariner and keep him out of the offshore service vessel fleet! Why you ask?..OMSA will tell you it’s because ship mariners aren’t of the “GoM culture” or “used to the ways of the oil patch” and that they aren’t “shiphandlers” who can maneuver vessels in Port Fourchon (of course that one goes away when OSVs are so big that they can’t get into Belle Pass). In reality it is actually because unlimited tonnage mariners have experience outside of the offshore fleet and know that the way to run a "ship’ is different than the way to run a “workboat” and the OMSA companies [B][U]DO NOT [/U][/B]want their ships run as ships which calls for ship size crews and mariners with ship grade licenses…that’s why. Large OSVs are ships being run as boats with boat size crews who for the most part have only boat operating experience and workboat certificates. The OMSA companies just weren’t satisfied with 6000grt, they got that a decade ago and wouldn’t be happy until they got it all…which now they have managed to do. Can it be for another reason?

Ok, Anchorman…your turn now

7

I see it as keeping the limited license gang in inland and domestic waters. The over 1600/3000 ton vessels will easily be manned by low cost immigrants and guest workers and we US unlimited license holders will find ourselves on the street.

Even the Bubbas who run the GOM shops will be delighted to hire folks with real licenses an degrees who have been trained since birth to shut up and do what they are told. Those Eastern Europeans are less likely to complain or question than Thibadeux and they will feel like they have landed at the end of the rainbow when they get off the plane in NOLA. And a year later when they get back on the plane with, what is to them a fortune, they will not see that the US government has once again helped to destroy the region and its working people.

8

Anchorman…hello, are you out there?

9

[U]Today 06:40 PMc.captain
Re: H.R.3619 stcw student loans

Anchorman…hello, are you out there?[/U]

Busy at the moment, will have to get back to you

[ATTACH]1144[/ATTACH]

10

[QUOTE=c.captain;42580]Anchorman…hello, are you out there?[/QUOTE]

He’s in NORWAY at the moment. TOO BUSY FOR US PEASANTS!!

11

[QUOTE=c.captain;42580]Anchorman…hello, are you out there?[/QUOTE]

I was sleeping. I’m 7 hours ahead of you guys. I guess I can explain why I’m mostly 180 degrees out from you most of the time. I’m in Norway, on a new build Norwegian Flagged construction ship, with Norwegian crew (I guess that makes me the foreigner here). And, just to add insult to injury, what you’re describing as far as OMSA. The proposal for large OSV’s, over 6,000 tons, was mostly written by yours truly based on having been the first with a large OSV license in 1997, and having upgraded to unlimited master. What I’ve found of value in STCW requirements are in the proposal, but learning about turbines, steam, low speed diesels, loading grain, etc…(which are STCW requirements) are certainly not in the proposal, traded off for a OSV restricted license.

12

[QUOTE=capttarpon727;42565]How would I find out what schools take sallie mae?[/QUOTE]

PMI for sure, and I believe MITAGS started that as well. Check the websites, and/or give those schools a call.

13

[QUOTE=c.captain;42568]No, it will be a good old boy from Lousiana or Mississippi and has worked for ECO for 25 years on nothing other than supply or anchorboats and has been through the “employer run” training program. It will NOT be a man who has been to a maritime academy or commanded ships in the merchant marine. Why do you think the OMSA wanted this so badly to get into the bill and fought to keep it from being removed? Simply, to disenfranchise the unlimited tonnage mariner and keep him out of the offshore service vessel fleet! Why you ask?..OMSA will tell you it’s because ship mariners aren’t of the “GoM culture” or “used to the ways of the oil patch” and that they aren’t “shiphandlers” who can maneuver vessels in Port Fourchon (of course that one goes away when OSVs are so big that they can’t get into Belle Pass). In reality it is actually because unlimited tonnage mariners have experience outside of the offshore fleet and know that the way to run a "ship’ is different than the way to run a “workboat” and the OMSA companies [B][U]DO NOT [/U][/B]want their ships run as ships which calls for ship size crews and mariners with ship grade licenses…that’s why. Large OSVs are ships being run as boats with boat size crews who for the most part have only boat operating experience and workboat certificates. The OMSA companies just weren’t satisfied with 6000grt, they got that a decade ago and wouldn’t be happy until they got it all…which now they have managed to do. Can it be for another reason?

Ok, Anchorman…your turn now[/QUOTE]

Man, this just comes across as bitter. I do have to ask, however, just what is a “ship size” crew? I read a paper recently that stated the average crew size on international ocean going vessels is down to 14. That is what we used to have on an ITB that I sailed on. That certainly seems “boat size” to me.

14

[QUOTE=cmakin;42598]Man, this just comes across as bitter.[/QUOTE]

Not the comments as a mariner who is bitter but rather from a man with an unlimited tonnage license who (to paraphrase the great John Houseman) “got it the old fashioned way…I eamed it”!

Large OSC licenses are not earned…they’re given by a very few select OSV onwers to their “chosen”

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[QUOTE=c.captain;42600]Not the comments as a mariner who is bitter but rather from a man with an unlimited tonnage license who (to paraphrase the great John Houseman) “got it the old fashioned way…I eamed it”!

Large OSC licenses are not earned…they’re given by a very few select OSV onwers to their “chosen”[/QUOTE]

That’s about the most bullshit that I’ve heard. You got you Master license before STCW, I got my after. I guess I earned mine and you didn’t because I had to do more. Next year, the 1600 ton Master will be a management level license, and those guys will be doing more than what you had to do to get you unlimited master license, and more on top of that to get the large OSV to 6,000, and then even more to get the endorsement above 6,000 which will include a good deal of STCW courses. Provided “what” and “if” the Coast Guard develops - they only have a proposal. The large OSV license is a stepping stone regime that actually make more sense by evaluating practical experience over taking a duplicative test, over a piece of paper that assumes you’re automatically qualified. Testing is only PART of what we are shooting for. Man, I guess the world is just passing you by.

16

[QUOTE=c.captain;42600]Not the comments as a mariner who is bitter but rather from a man with an unlimited tonnage license who (to paraphrase the great John Houseman) “got it the old fashioned way…I eamed it”!

Large OSC licenses are not earned…they’re given by a very few select OSV onwers to their “chosen”[/QUOTE]

Any license is “earned”. I do love the hearsay, however. (I will let the “eamed” go by without comment. Or not).

17

anchorman…you are pretty much my poster child except you’re from Alabama, not Mississippi or Louisiana. Have you worked on any merchant ships in your career? Did ECO help you to get your unlimited tonnage master’s license? Nothing wrong to be a man dedicated to a company. Obviously ECO has treated you well but they are very selective in giving their approval and support. Not alot who get picked to be their Large OSV masters. Any of those masters not from the South? Plenty who came in with unlimited licenses but never selected to be masters there even though Large OSV masters did. They really don’t care too much for unlimited tonnage people (especially masters) there, do they? Pretty much only on those couple of government service vessels they have which do require them (the WHEELER and the PALMER if I am correct) but any others? Any unlimited masters commanding the very large anchor boats? How about the AKIRA? She had been an unlimited vessel when she as a Subchapter I cargo ship, but as soon as she bacame a Large OSV, did they keep an unlimited master then?..didn’t think so

Even you say you got your unlimited master’s license by going from Large OSV master to unlimited…sound’s like gaming the system to me. Also, please detail what the in house “special training” you received to “earn” your 6000grt endorsement? Or since you were license #001, did you get any special training or was it “given” to you.

I got mine by going from cadet to third mate to second mate to chief mate to master…just like the CFR’s require. Now, unlimited tonnage Large OSV masters are around the corner. How many of them will find a way to game the system as well? Tell me that I am not being disenfranchised by this latest development? Every mariner who earned his license through the CFR required process is being disenfranchised and has lost all position of any strength in the offshore industry as a result. You and your bretheren in the Gulf are the winners as are the Louisiana mafia companies. I only pray that the USCG places strict trade restriction on those new licenses which make them domestic and offshore service only and can’t be upgraded without going back down to a lower level first however that probably won’t happen because OMSA will get to the Coast Guard first and make sure that the new regulations will favor them and their “chosen” mariners as always. Any gross tons mariners will only be left with commenting on the NPRM and likely will not get anything for their efforts.

cmakin…even though you love to take your swipes at me, you do not have a place in this discussion since you do not have a master’s license so leave it to anchorman and myself to slug out!

18

[QUOTE=c.captain;42604]anchorman

Even you say you got your unlimited master’s license by going from Large OSV master to unlimited…sound’s like gaming the system to me. Also, please detail what the in house “special training” you received to “earn” your 6000grt endorsement? Or since you were license #001, did you get any special trainging or was it “given” to you.

I got mine by going from cadet to third mate to second mate to chief mate to master…just like the CFR’s require. Now, unlimited tonnage Large OSV masters are around the corner. How many of them will find a way to game the system as well? Tell me that I am not being disenfranchised by this latest development? Every mariner who earned his license through the CFR required process is being disenfranchised and has lost all position of any strength in the offshore industry as a result. You and your bretheren in the Gulf are the winners as are the Louisiana mafia companies. I only pray that the USCG places strict trade restriction on those new licenses which make them domestic and offshore service only however that probably won’t happen because OMSA will get to the Coast Guard first and make sure that the new regulations will favor them and their “chosen” mariners as always.

cmakin…you do not have a place in this since you do not have a master’s license so leave it to anchorman and myself to slug out![/QUOTE]

You are being disenfranchised by your reputation, if anything.

I don’t have to prove myself, and you don’t want any of this. I went through 1600, 3rd, 2nd, 1st, and Master just like everyone else that went that route - As per CFR. There is no other way. When I got the 6,000 ton on my 1,600 ton, it was before STCW, and there was no program at the time, now there is. I had a letter from USCG Headquarters at the time, and because of good reason, several Masters were hired at the time. You do not know the context. If anyone has sacrificed working offshore and being away from their family, they earned what they have. It’s disingenuous to think otherwise oh mighty one that earned it all. Plus, I could care less what a two-bit chicken little wannabe thinks.

I know you’re bitter. I would be too. If I had an unlimited Master license, been through as many employers in as many years that I have been in the oil field, with a record I can’t shake, I think I would need to fight for American jobs too. At the very least, at the same rate I’m managing to lose them. All the while trashing the ones that were smart enough not to hire me, blame it all of the foreigners that were kind enough to issue me a certificate of equivalency for some of those jobs, and manage to be inaccurate with a majority of my assumption …it kinda weighs on you after a while…makes you …um…bitter.

Is that more to your satisfaction? Because I certainly don’t understand what’s on TV over here…I have time, pencil and paper.

19

Fine…throw your personal shit at me, but it is the little man fights from a gutter. I didn’t fling anything personal at you except to say that by your own claim you went from 1600grt to 6000grt to unlimited master which would have been gaming the system and you know as well as I do that does happen in our industry. You certainly didn’t mention that in your earlier post but if you went through all the steps in the CFR then I am wrong and apologize for being wrong. See, I’m big enough man to admit that although I DO NOT believe that getting special “letters” from the USCG is just and fair to all those who don’t get them but so be it, you got one…hooray for you! I think it is exactly at that moment that the disenfranchisement of the unlimited tonnage mariner in the offshore service vessel industry began. Who was the company who wanted those letters to be issued? You certainly didn’t get it by going to the USCG on your own and asking them for it! ECO wanted their chosen masters to get them and paved the road all along the way.

Everything else I’ve said about the new unlimited OSV licenses I standby however…there are a great many questions I asked you which you failed to answer, instead chosing to get personal and make a pretty strong attempt to discredit me. I voice my opinions concerning foreign mariners in the GoM on here because I believe in what I fight for is right “by law” and that it benefits each and every American mariner. You however are an apologist for the Norwegians and have shown that time and again. Oh and thanks for writing the language of the new OSV tonnage law put into the USCG Authorization Billl. Wow, that’s really something having that kind of access to the Congress…I sure wished I had a thimble’s worth of that access…(man, you’re just like Sharon Angle having the “juice” with Jim DeMint)! It must also mean by extension you were involved in writing the section authorizing the creation of unlimited tonnage OSV licenses. You obviously are not concerned about your position since you are already an unlimited tonnage master so must rather be doing that for somebody else’s benefit?

Btw, I am doing just fine thank you…got a promotion the other day in fact. Of course, the company is behind the curve in their sector of the industry at the moment but you know, I think they’ll be coming around within the next six months since they have a whole load of vessels to man with unlimited licensed mariners, including Americans! My distaste of OMSA which is controlled by the Five Families in South Louisiana is clear and I will never back down from that one…I believe them to be a mafia but that is my opinion which I am not afraid to voice. If the majority of others here feel differently, let them come forward and say so. I have no intention to ever ask one of the “Family” companies for a job again. Remember, I have an unlimited unrestricted license and can go back to merchant ships when and if I chose to and they are hiring deck officers right now (even masters)!

So, if you want to continue to malign my character and belittle the causes I believe in and fight for go right ahead but remember who ends up looking like “two-bit little chicken”

Your turn again…please answer the questions I have posed earlier. They might be political in nature but they are fair questions to ask. This entire industry stinks of rotten corruption at all levels (especially inside the Congress & USCG), so now is your chance to tell me how I am wrong in that belief and that all the offshore service vessel companies are squarely on the side of their mariners and bend over backwards to take care of them.

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[QUOTE=c.captain;42606]Fine…thrown the personal shit at me, but it is the little man fights from a gutter. I didn’t fling anything pesonnal at you except to say that by your own claim you went from 1600grt to 6000grt to unlimited master which would have been gaming the system and you know as well as I do that does happen in our industry. If you went through all the steps in the CFR then I am wrong and apologize for being wrong. See, I’m big enough man to admit that although I DO NOT believe that special letters from the USCG is a fair way to go but so be it, you got one…hooray for you!

Everything else though about the unlimited OSV license I standby however…there are a great many questions I asked you which you failed to answer, instead chosing to get personal and make a pretty strong attempt to discredit me. I voice my opinions concerning foreign mariners in the GoM on here because I believe in what I fight for is right “by law” and that it benefits each and every American mariner. You however are an apologist for the Norwegians and have shown that time and again. I don’t know, could that be because ECO owns half a Norwegian offshore company?

Btw, I am doing just fine thank you…got a promotion the other day in fact. Of course, not the company many people want to work for but you know, I think they’ll be coming around within the next six months since they have a whole shitload of vessels to man with unlimited licensed mariners, including Americans! My distaste of OMSA which is controlled by the Five Families in South Louisiana is clear and I will never back down from that one…I believe them to be a mafia but that is my opinion which I am not afraid to voice. If the majority of others here feel diffently, let them come forward and say so. I have no intention to ever ask one of the “Family” companies for a job again. Remember, I have an unlimited unrestricted license and can go back to merchant ships when and if I chose to and they are hiring.

So, if you want to continue to malign my character and belittle the causes I believe in go right ahead but remember who ends up looking like “two-bit little chicken”

your turn…please answer the questions I have posed earlier[/QUOTE]

I thought you said Slug it out?.. right after saying I was gaming the system - impugning my integrity. What the hell you want, a dozen roses, and nothing personal? It generally doesn’t work that way. By the way, I went from OS to Unlimited Master…I’m sure you can deduct how that is possible being an unlimited master yourself. I figured as much when 6,000 ton was mentioned, since that’s what was being talked about at the time. The hawespipe does not change because you have an endorsement. That might be a headline for you, apparently.
You can hold any opinion that you want, we all can. I could care less about yours when it’s tearing companies and people down, but don’t hit me with 20 freaking questions for your own satisfaction - that happen to be an edit from what I just answered (In my own way). You can see what was quoted - your quote, but it changed.

I don’t have to explain myself, but I will for the education of others when it comes to what I did, or know for fact, and not what I’ve heard about.

I really am glad you’re happy with your position. That is good, but I will say that I’ve never witnessed someone slam their current employer as much as you have without the common curtesy to quit first. Just never witnessed that, is all.

The questions that I have posted are for entertainment purposes only and rhetorical in nature*