One last po’boy hail Mary, Might try some exotic ideas to get a kill depending on the lithology: find a thief zone above the pay that is weak enough to allow cross flow into it from the pay zone by creating natural man made (oxymoron) restriction above the thief by using clay swelling fresh mud for shale zones that then heave and close off around the un-cemented casing. The barite then would only strengthen the bridge as it settles out and allow subsequent plugging operations time to progress.
[QUOTE=bigmoose;34350]I have been waiting for someone to comment on this… rlanasa if your “friends” at BP now have a worst case scenario of an unstoppable “hole in the ocean floor” with a 10 year expiration time… don’t ya think they better gets some more deepwater drills spudded to start drawing down that reservoir?
Company Man… I’m starting to get as riled up as you are![/QUOTE]
The DD3 will have this problem resolved by August. I hope it will be sooner.
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34352]Yes, that’s the popular belief – that companies routinely cut all sorts of corners on safety to improve profits, consequences be damned.
Trouble is, it makes no sense at all. You don’t maximize profits by increasing the risks of catastrophic, disastrous failures. If that were the path to profits, then catastrophic, disastrous failures like this one would be commonplace. But they aren’t – they are quite rare. Out of some 5000 deepwater oil wells put into production so far, we have this one catastrophic failure. 1 in 5000 is not evidence of widespread “corner cutting” of safety rules.
Any possible savings from “corner cutting” pale into complete insignificance in comparison to the costs of this disaster. BP has already spent a billion dollars on this problem – and they will doubtless spend more billions on it. The notion that they deliberately decided to risk this catastrophe just to save some money on safety is utterly ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
Then what we have here is a consistently colassal failure of risk management by the people who make the decisions. However, since we usually see the bad decisions being driven by cost-saving measures, hence the greed motivation. It has already been proven that BP opted for “industry-acceptable” methodologies over “best practices.” What’s the difference? Bottom line: Saving costs. Another word for saving cost is profit.
[QUOTE=company man 1;34342]Edit post: Not Bullshit. My God man! I DON"T CARE TO HEAR ONE MORE PERSON SAY WE CAN BLAME PEOPLE LATER. THE UPPER MOST MANAGEMENT OF THIS COMAPNY APPROVED THE USE OF CASINGS THEY [U]KNEW COULD COLLAPSE & BLOW OUT UNDER A WORST CASE SCENARIO. [/U]Well guess what pals ? the worst case scenario did happen & you not only didn’t plan for it, your decision making was THE DIRECT CAUSE OF IT! Good lord in heaven is not any on e accountable any more? If this case is not prosecuted to the FULLEST extent of the law, & a lot of decision makers who put corporate profits ahead of the safety & general welfare of the citizens of the United States, then we need to just disband this country. Because rule of law no longer exists in the United States.[/QUOTE]
Your level of excitement reminds me of a kid with Attention Disorder.
The law is, thankfully, practiced in a court room. Your style of investigation and immediate conviction brings to mind the ‘lynching’ psyche.
All those responsible for endangering the personnel on the DWH will receive convictions, when we identify what happened, and who is responsible for the decisions, many of them sanctioned by the MMS.
Don’t jump the gun too early!
There are three senior people who worked on the DWH who are apparently sick or refuse to take part in the current Energy Committee Hearings. I believe they are all AMOCO and TO personnel.
So, chill out! The law will get their man, but the Law won’t ask for your ‘considered’ opinions.
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34352]Yes, that’s the popular belief – that companies routinely cut all sorts of corners on safety to improve profits, consequences be damned.
Trouble is, it makes no sense at all. You don’t maximize profits by increasing the risks of catastrophic, disastrous failures. If that were the path to profits, then catastrophic, disastrous failures like this one would be commonplace. But they aren’t – they are quite rare. Out of some 5000 deepwater oil wells put into production so far, we have this one catastrophic failure. 1 in 5000 is not evidence of widespread “corner cutting” of safety rules.
Any possible savings from “corner cutting” pale into complete insignificance in comparison to the costs of this disaster. BP has already spent a billion dollars on this problem – and they will doubtless spend more billions on it. The notion that they deliberately decided to risk this catastrophe just to save some money on safety is utterly ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
True you don’t maximize profits by increasing risks but you do maximize profits by not spending any more money or time than absolutely needed to get a job done. When you get away with taking shortcuts a few times with no adverse consequences you get complacent and wonder why the rule or regulation was put in place in the first place. It’s kinda like easing thru that stop sign on your way home without coming to a complete stop. You do it for years and then one day some fool comes down the street at 100 mph and kills you because you didn’t stop like the sign said. This is why traffic cops give tickets for not coming to a complete stop, to protect people from themselves and other morons. Trouble is the police in the offshore drilling industry have long been considered an inconvenience that could be taken care of with a phone call to the right people. Couple that with pressure from the CEO all the way down to the drilling supervisor to get things done quickly and cheaply PLUS pay a large bonus for doing so and you have a formula for disaster. Not too many people have the courage to risk a high paying job by saying NO, neither do executives want to lower the quarterly stock performance by spending money or having delays, serious bonus money is involved. When thinking short term the average high bonus earning person will often think that IF they can get away with a few shortcuts for a few years they’ll be set and then it’ll be someone else’s problem. We’ve all been in offices, rigs or ships after that sort of person has moved on up the ladder [or out the door].
It was just a matter of time until hubris, greed and corruption came to their inevitable conclusion.
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34352]Yes, that’s the popular belief – that companies routinely cut all sorts of corners on safety to improve profits, consequences be damned.
Trouble is, it makes no sense at all. You don’t maximize profits by increasing the risks of catastrophic, disastrous failures. If that were the path to profits, then catastrophic, disastrous failures like this one would be commonplace. But they aren’t – they are quite rare. Out of some 5000 deepwater oil wells put into production so far, we have this one catastrophic failure. 1 in 5000 is not evidence of widespread “corner cutting” of safety rules.
Any possible savings from “corner cutting” pale into complete insignificance in comparison to the costs of this disaster. BP has already spent a billion dollars on this problem – and they will doubtless spend more billions on it. The notion that they deliberately decided to risk this catastrophe just to save some money on safety is utterly ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
If I may disagree with this concept, I don’t think BP makes things better or worse than anyone else, is more or less irresponsable than other O.C…
The point is the human attitute to gamble with these resources; deepwater oil drilling is as threatening as nuclear power. What happened with the BP’s DWH is the same thing that happended with Tschernobyl PP! Nuclear plants are “very safe” and don’t explode every day (…); so oil rigs; but if it happens it is an irrimediable catastrophe to the Earth and to anyone/everything that LIVES on it. That’s a gambling and that’s the human being handling with stuff bigger than him (i.e. NATURE) and that he cannot and will never be able to control.
I made a promise just two hous ago to dig through BPs internal investigation & dissiminate all the unanswered questions or show the design & procedural flaws that could/ would have led to this accident. I will not be able to keep that promise. I am so overwhelmed by the evidence that has come forth & even backed up by BP’s own internal investigation (even though they don’t realize it) that I do not have to proceed any further to know beyond a shadow of a doubt of the gross negligence of BP’s operating officers which systematically caused this disaster. Alvis just posted a story form the NY times which shows that the casing designs were questioned company wide last June before the rig was even spudded into position at MC 252. I have parsed through the first 15 pages & found enough information released by BP to also ask about omissions of casing weight/ grade of casings which can then be researched & questions asked about burst ratings of these casings. I also question that when slacking off the production casing string & taking weight some +/- 50’ off bottom why wasn’t the hole circulated fully to make ceratin that when casing seals were stung into the casing head it would help assure that those seals would function properly & form a proper seal at the sea floor, therby not allowing a flow path for migrating nitrogen & hydrocarbons to destroy the integrity of the cement.
Many other various & obvious issues have been pointed out concerning the testing of casing seals & the cement integrity, integrity of the BOPs, the EDS, & today I was emailed about probable violations concerning the ESDs on certain diesel engines that were either bypassed or taken out of service completely. These are all violations of API/ MMS standards as well as BP’s own standard policies & practices and show a complete disregard for industry standards, the safety of workers on board the DWH, & the environment & well being of the people of the Gulf coast as well as colleagues that follow these standards throughout this industry.
It is my personal belief that a company as disrespectful to the well being of the citizens of the United States, will soon come to the conclusion for FINANCIAL reasons to end the dog & pony show they are now performing. I believe that they will attempt to back out of this mess which they have caused completely, leaving the gulf coast residents & the president of the United States holding the bag. They will make a corporate decision to fight it out in the judicial system of the United States while sucking as much oil out of the reserves they have already drilled for & are processing in their existing production & refining facilities. If you think it can’t or won’t happen, you better think again. It absolutely can happen & if my read on the way these people think is correct, & no one has offered any evidence to suggest otherwise, they have already run the financial numbers & are considering pulling the plug & fighting it out in court. I point to the dreaded vote of confidence as my evidence of my latest claim. For anyone who is a sports follower, the last thing the owner of a team does before firing a coach & going in another direction is give him the dreaded vote of confidence. Yesterday afternoon I heard one overrididng theme from all the BP executives I saw interviewed. They all gave their word that they would see this thing through until the end. If this were an understood fact then they should not have all repeated the same line the exact same way.
This disaster will affect the lives of so many people both inside the industry as well as out that the numbers are incalculable. I am calling upon fellow posters who care about this situation to get a hold of their congressman & the president & make sure this doesn’t happen. The only way to avoid this is by bringing a justice department investigation & seizing all BP assets in the United States & not allowing the transferal of these assets to anyone with whom these guys may have ties or cozy relationships with. I am also calling upon Attorney Genreal Richard Holder to conduct criminal investigations into the negligent homicides of the eleven souls lost on the night of 4/20/10 & the reckless endangerment of the other 115 who were on board that rig. Furthermore, I am calling upon Mr. Holder to prosecute to the fullest extent of the law, ALL involved in the decision making process which led to substandard casing use, substandard cement design, substandard testing procedures, as well as any & all ESDs & EDS systems & BOP testsing procedures that were not properly done due to the desire to meet financial goals over safety.
It is imperitive to that our leaders act much more swiftly in bringing these charges forth ASAP, unlike the administraion’s initial handling of the spill, to thwart any possible efforts of BP & its operating officers from causing the greatest environmental catastrophe in the history of this country & recieving continued financial recompence. It is also imperative that criminal complaints be filed to avoid any efforts of these officers flight outside the jurisdiction of the United States justice system. In short ladies & gents, If we don’t get justice in this situation against the guilty parties involved then we stand a grave risk of the total destruction of the United States government & its abilities to enforce its own laws as well as justice for the eleven lost & many, many others.
Sorry for all the spam on this. They posted an incorrect URL.
Press conference is here: http://www.dvidshub.net/?script=video/video_live_webcasts.php&which=1232
[QUOTE=MichaelWSmith;34352]Yes, that’s the popular belief – that companies routinely cut all sorts of corners on safety to improve profits, consequences be damned.
Trouble is, it makes no sense at all. You don’t maximize profits by increasing the risks of catastrophic, disastrous failures. If that were the path to profits, then catastrophic, disastrous failures like this one would be commonplace. But they aren’t – they are quite rare. Out of some 5000 deepwater oil wells put into production so far, we have this one catastrophic failure. 1 in 5000 is not evidence of widespread “corner cutting” of safety rules.
Any possible savings from “corner cutting” pale into complete insignificance in comparison to the costs of this disaster. BP has already spent a billion dollars on this problem – and they will doubtless spend more billions on it. [U]The notion that they deliberately decided to risk this catastrophe just to save some money on safety is utterly ridiculous[/U].[/QUOTE]
With all due respects … I used to live among these CEO’s on vacation retreat where they had multimillion dollar get-aways … I followed one home in my van one day. He was driving a new BMW 5 series convertible in a 35mph 2-lane straight (not curvy) road through tree lined scenery. He pulled out and passed sometimes 2 cars at a time, hitting maybe 60mph in bursts of speed. The man was 50-ish yrs old. In all fairness the likelihood of him having or causing an accident was almost nil, but what he did before my eyes was proof he had no RESPECT for the sanctity of my world or societies laws in place. When a man spends 4-8 hours fishing with another man he knows that man pretty well.
As a fishing guide for the ‘elitist’ class and others who are regular Joes in the ‘professional’ class, and ‘working’ class, I could not help but become a sort of psychologist, and because my mission was to show this client a good time, I conformed as best I could to their individual needs. I am telling you and others, anyone who will hear, that of all the ‘personality types’ and ‘professions’ who can earn enough money to spend $1,000 a day on vacation, the “CORPORATE CEO CLASS” was the most unappealing segment of humanity I had. (as a whole and on average) These are people who are able to make huge money from taking calculated risks. In college we called it the [U]Risk/Return ratio[/U] or R/R relationship. I look at Tony Hayward and I see a sociopath.
I apologize to any I’m speaking to who own a business or are entrepreneurs like I was. I apologize to the good CEO’s and upon reflection quite a few were really nice guys. One supplied me with free or discount lures to use on my trips, a great guy I could call by name now but I won’t. I respected him. Another ran a company in Virginia and I would be thrilled if he would marry my sister, an exemplary treasure of a bright and good man.
But I’m telling you friends … Some of the BIGGEST CEOs and politicians today and yesterday are pure Sociopaths. They give each other get out of jail cards all the time. [U]Dick Cheney shot his friend, who wore blaze orange, right in the face with a shotgun[/U]. I’ve been hunting all my life and feel that only a kid or a drunk could do that. There are at least 2 sets of laws in this country. I have to pee in a cup before I can get a job bagging groceries today. Please accept what I say as my honest heartfelt truth, we ‘normal’ humans most of us, cannot imagine such an alien mind, unless we spend a day fishing with them. I ‘grokked’ (mind-melded) the CEO mentality and what I saw was inside these outwardly successful people was horrifying. They can look good if they stay out of prison and the smart ones almost always do. Other people pay the price of working with clever sociopaths. They have much ravenous energy. They serve on each others Boards of Directors.
Corporations in themselves are entities with no real soul, just a carnivorous cannibal who gobbles assets of weaker rivals, who is colletively bound by laws that they draw up for govt to constrain them. I got a BS in Marketing, 1980. I learned that in business morality is defined by laws, and so I studied Business Law as required for the curriculum. I also took Abnormal Psychology, not required. I never had an Ethics class until 20 years later when I studied to be a teacher of HS Science. Do you see the irony in this world we are told to understand via media manipulation of reality?
I was a boat Captain with up to 6 passengers … If anything went wrong on my vessel I felt some degree of responsibility. If I appointed crew who failed, I failed equally or more so. If the crewman failed because I had not qualified him, supervised him, supplied him, instructed or trained him, I was much more responsible than he. This is a situation of “Law of the Sea” here as I see it.
Please understand that I am calling out Tony Hayward as a likely sociopath … Among many … he should have his head examined. I myself have a Mensa IQ, a teacher, so I think a lot about HOW smart people think. I admire most smart people … but there is a segment that causes great harm to humanity and they are invisible … “Lizard People” is a figure of speech used by some. Allow me to copy below as illustration:
[U]http://www.mcafee.cc/Bin/sb.html[/U]
[B]THE MALIGNANT PERSONALITY[/B]:
These people are mentally ill and extremely dangerous! The following precautions will help to protect you from the destructive acts of which they are capable. First, to recognize them, keep the following guidelines in mind.
(1) They are habitual liars. They seem incapable of either knowing or telling the truth about anything.
(2) They are egotistical to the point of narcissism. They really believe they are set apart from the rest of humanity by some special grace.
(3) They scapegoat; they are incapable of either having the insight or willingness to accept responsibility for anything they do. Whatever the problem, it is always someone else’s fault.
(4) They are remorselessly vindictive when thwarted or exposed.
(5) Genuine religious, moral, or other values play no part in their lives. They have no empathy for others and are capable of violence. Under older psychological terminology, they fall into the category of psychopath or sociopath, but unlike the typical psychopath, their behavior is masked by a superficial social facade.
If you have come into conflict with such a person or persons, do the following immediately!
(1) Notify your friends and relatives of what has happened.
Do not be vague. Name names, and specify dates and circumstances. Identify witnesses if possible and provide supporting documentation if any is available.
(2) Inform the police. The police will do nothing with this information except to keep it on file, since they are powerless to act until a crime has been committed. Unfortunately, that often is usually too late for the victim. Nevertheless, place the information in their hands.
Obviously, if you are assaulted or threatened before witnesses, you can get a restraining order, but those are palliative at best.
(3) Local law enforcement agencies are usually under pressure if wealthy or politically powerful individuals are involved, so include state and federal agencies as well and tell the locals that you have. Civil rights are involved at that point. No local crooked lawyer, judge, or corrupt police official wants to be within a country mile if that comes to light! It is in such cases that wealthy psychopaths discover just how firm the “friends” they count on to cover up for them really are! Even some of the drug cartel biggies will scuttle for cover if someone picks up the brick their thugs hide under. Exposure is bad for business.
(4) Make sure that several of your friends have the information in the event something happens to you. That way, an appropriate investigation will follow if you are harmed. Don’t tell other people who has the information, because then something bad could happen to them as well. Instruct friends to take such an incident to the newspapers and other media
.
If you are dealing with someone who has considerable money, you must realize that they probably won’t try to harm you themselves, they will contract with someone to make the hit. The malignant type is a coward and will not expose himself or herself to personal danger if he or she can avoid it.
CNN reports that top kill has failed.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/29/us.gulf.oil.spill/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
[QUOTE=alcor;34360]Your level of excitement reminds me of a kid with Attention Disorder.
The law is, thankfully, practiced in a court room. Your style of investigation and immediate conviction brings to mind the ‘lynching’ psyche.
All those responsible for endangering the personnel on the DWH will receive convictions, when we identify what happened, and who is responsible for the decisions, many of them sanctioned by the MMS.
Don’t jump the gun too early!
There are three senior people who worked on the DWH who are apparently sick or refuse to take part in the current Energy Committee Hearings. I believe they are all AMOCO and TO personnel.
So, chill out! The law will get their man, but the Law won’t ask for your ‘considered’ opinions.[/QUOTE]
Just like the law has gotten the people who caused the “banking crisis” ? Alcor, i can’t help but notice every time you refer to BP you refer to AMOCO. You never theard the BP/AMOCO joke. that the AMOCO is silent ? I really do wish my view of things was a little more innocent & naive like yours is. Unfortunately, I have seen too many criminals get away with fraud, racketeering, embezzelment, & now, murder ? All the while hiding behind the facade of the corporation.
[QUOTE=company man 1;34364]…… integrity of the BOPs, the EDS, & today I was emailed about probable violations concerning the ESDs on certain diesel engines that were either bypassed or taken out of service completely. These are all violations of API/ MMS standards….[/QUOTE]
But if so, who owned these and whose responsibility were they? When the shoe falls it’s gonna land on more than just BP…. So you might start broadening your brush now…… and how many companies will the investigation find were bribing the MMS? When someone visits the office at the Texas Railroad Commission they must sign in and answer a question, “Have you offered gifts or compensation to Railroad Commission personnel?”
Could someone at Oceaneering or BP switch the spillcam to a medium angle shot of the riser area?
[QUOTE=alvis;34376]Could someone at Oceaneering or BP switch the spillcam to a medium angle shot of the riser area?[/QUOTE]
Edit: Sorry, a medium angle shot of the riser/BOP area.
I’m continuing to analyize the BP report. Current point: They decided to pipe the displaced drilling fluid directly to the support boat (overboard) instead of displacing to the DWH mud pits/tanks (page 33). I guess this would save, what 4 or 5 hours pumping the mud off board? To save this time they lost the ability to monitor mud returns by bypassing the mud return flow meters on the DWH. Seems a critical piece of data to loose for 4 or 5 hours of work considering the history of this well.
So my current question that I am pondering, I wonder if there was an “Early Completion” bonus structure for the Company Man and key personnel… perhaps for all personnel? Anyone willing to share their remuneration contract structure? Haven’t heard any poking around the low level financial motivators to “speed up the work.”
So the flow we actually see on live spill cam is the new leak? And where is this?
Did someone get that? Press conference were very “leaky” of infos.
[QUOTE=Carroll;34379]So the flow we actually see on live spill cam is the new leak? And where is this?
Did someone get that? Press conference were very “leaky” of infos.[/QUOTE]
No, this is at the end of the riser away from the well head and BOP. This leak and the one at the kink have been here all along.
I wonder if the ROV is going to get a bit of fresh air…
[QUOTE=pumpjack hand;34373]But if so, who owned these and whose responsibility were they? When the shoe falls it’s gonna land on more than just BP…. So you might start broadening your brush now…… and how many companies will the investigation find were bribing the MMS? When someone visits the office at the Texas Railroad Commission they must sign in and answer a question, “Have you offered gifts or compensation to Railroad Commission personnel?”[/QUOTE]
No doubt, you make excellent points. And the way you see the cozy relationship going between Coast Guard officials & the top BP dogs & the sorry way these guys are responding to the oil coming ashore & the fact that BP has not kept the Coast Guard in the loop, they could esily end up in the net before it’s over. But there is one central theme pushing this engine. Money. BP put pressure on TO. TO put pressure on their hands. The hands let their sups know they were bypassing things, their sups let the TO rig manager & Co. man know. TO’s office let BP’s office know. BP says put speed ahead of safety. They proceed on. You know that’s how it works. That’s how it worked with the casing order. That’s how it worked with the cement job. That’s how it worked with the premature displacement. That’s how it worked with the testing. That’s how it worked with the decision not to log the cement. That’s how we all got here & that’s how it will continue to work until we stop it.
[QUOTE=bigmoose;34378]I’m continuing to analyize the BP report. Current point: They decided to pipe the displaced drilling fluid directly to the support boat instead of displacing to the DWH mud pits/tanks. I guess this would save, what 4 or 5 hours pumping the mud off board? To save this time they lost the ability to monitor mud returns by bypassing the mud return flow meters on the DWH. Seems a critical piece of data to loose for 4 or 5 hours of work considering the history of this well.
So my current question that I am pondering, I wonder if there was an “Early Completion” bonus structure for the Company Man and key personnel… perhaps for all personnel? Anyone willing to share their remuneration contract structure? Haven’t heard any poking around the low level financial motivators to “speed up the work.”[/QUOTE]
These guys get bonuses for finishing these projects on time or ahead of schedule. There is no set rate. These bonuses are always changed & are not usually hard numbers.
[QUOTE=company man 1;34382]These guys get bonuses for finishing these projects on time or ahead of schedule. There is no set rate. These bonuses are always changed & are not usually hard numbers.[/QUOTE]
But they were already far behind on this well. They had to abandon the first well they were drilling in this reservoir and this was the second.
But the DWH was due to be moved the next day wasn’t it? If they weren’t able to start moving the DWH the next day, wouldn’t they have incurred costs around $1,000,000 ($500,000 for the rig and the other half for people)?
Edit: Just noticed I quoted the wrong text.