yours 100 pct as well !!
He is unwilling to set rules of behavior for his crew and hold them responsible? His interest resides in himself. He is just a guy with a license that wants the least amount of responsibility possible in order to keep getting paid. He probably should not have cadets on his ship as he is poor example of what a shipâs master should be.
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The masterâs job is to obey the laws, ensure the safety of the crew and complete the voyage for the owner. Iâm sure we agree on that.
Violence has three requirements: motive, means, opportunity. Removing one side of the triangle makes violence impossible.
By banning cadets from his ship he has ensured that no one with the means and motive to assault a cadet will have an opportunity to do so; the voyage will be completed without undue delay; no law was broken in the process.
Seems like heâs doing his job just fine.
So, the captain should be removing the rapists from his ship. I couldnât agree more!
But tell us, how do you identify a rapist? What trait should we be on the lookout for? Do they have prominent brows and drag their knuckles? Do they talk to themselves and grab the ass of every girl (or boy) who walks by?
Canât they appear to be amicable, hard working normal folks who snap in private where no one will know?
Ever know a couple and find out that one was abusive while the other was being abused? After finding out did you say to yourself, âDamn, never saw that coming.â
Picking out the bad ones isnât fast, easy or accurate. In the mean time people will continue to be sexually assaulted. Thatâs unacceptable.
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A second mates license is the minimum qualification to sail third mate. Back then after completing an apprenticeship over 4 years with correspondence courses the cadet attended maritime school for 6 months and sat for their second mate certificate at the end.
British India wanted their officers to be experienced in different trades and shipping companies before they rejoined the fleet.
I have sailed as mate where every officer including the third mate has possessed a master unlimited ticket.
Fair enough, if you donât need the cheap labor forgo it. No shipping company is obligated to be a kindergarten for future mariners.
Well that is a very valid point. Not easy to detect deviants. Not impossible but not an easy task.
I think as Master or Chief Engr itâs not unreasonable to be proactive in ensuring an open line of communication remains to all cadets on board.
I think half the issues are we canât imagine someone we work with being that person who abuses someone. It makes us question our own judgement about the person. If there is anything g I have learned over 30 years of dealing with issues - you never believe itâs possible that someone would do that. But itâs better to take the complaint at face value and run it to ground. Best for all involved and you deal with simmering issues right away
It certainly should be the job of the Master, with the support of the company to ensure a workplace free of sexual harassment. It is also the job of the Master, with the support of the Company to make it clear to all that all complaints of harassment will be taken very seriously, will be fully investigated, and if warranted will result in discharge, dismissal and/or criminal charges. It is certainly the job of the Master, with the support of the Company to ensure all who come on board know that any type of sexual harassment is completely unacceptable, and to encourage that all and any should report any thing of this sort to him/her immediately. And to further provide and communicate an atmosphere where such complaints are free of reprisals or fear.
If the Master is not willing to accept these responsibilities, I would suggest he ask to be returned to 2 nd Mate and enjoy standing his watches without the responsibilities that come with the Captainâs Cabin and the seat at the head of the table.
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Well said
Another consideration is the power differential between a cadet and a graduate working entry level.
First, age. A cadet is around twenty. A graduate is around twenty-two. Two years makes a difference in maturity, life experience and backbone at that age.
The USMMA cadet is is getting free tuition provided she graduates. A graduate is set and isnât risking repayment.
The cadet is working towards a degree which may be derailed by a bad evaluation. A graduate risks only loosing a job at that company.
A USMMA cadet is at risk of loosing a commission. A graduate is a serving officer in our military.
In sum a cadet, but especially a USMMA cadet, has so much to loose by as little as a bad evaluation by a supervisor that a cadet might be better to take the abuse in silence as so many have done. (Itâs a wretched thing to type. Iâm disgusted by the conclusion but I think itâs correct.)
On the other hand, had Midshipman X been a degree and license holding graduate, free from the risk of debt repayment, a serving officer in our military, with all the experience and confidence that brings, would the first engineer have dared to touch her? Not as likely.
Thatâs why this has to end.
It is the responsibility of the Company, and their senior people - including Captains, to establish an atmosphere where that cadet does not fear the issues you raise. None of those issues are the fault of the cadet, they are the fault of the situation they perceive themselves to be in. That is unacceptable, and demands change.
As I posted earlier - can be fixed quickly with a hot line number/email established by MARAD or the Coast Guard - guaranteed free of reprisal and outside the cadets " chain of command" where they can report these incidents with out fear. And where they can be confident they will be followed up on.
A list of all such complaints once made should be a regular report to the Head of MARAD or the Commandant of the Coast Guard with a status of where all these complaints are in the process of investigation.
This is doable if people actually want to do it.
All of this was put in place after the last stand down of cadet shipping. The Kings Point cadets are all issued satellite communication devices that they can contact the school at any time and are required to check in weekly to give an âall clearâ password from what I understand.
Nothing has been fixed quickly. It is going to require a full on culture change and frankly it is about time.
thanks - understand - what I was recommending was a place for them to call outside their chain of command - including the school. For any who felt pressure or uncomfortable or mistrust of their school - rightly or wrongly.
Honestly, this is one of the worst responses I have ever read. This captain is refusing to acknowledge the real problem, and instead, is choosing to make jokes of it. Instead of rooting out the real issue (RAPISTS AND SEXUAL ASSAULTERS!!), he denies anything all together. He is choosing not to help upbring the next generation of mariners and do his actual job. Turn his back on legal matters of HIS crew and HIS responsibility. This is disgusting. Whatâs more disgusting is you making light of the situation. Instead of entertaining this âCaptainâsâ weighing of his shitty crew, you should entertain who you keep company with. The audacity to post this with everything thatâs going on is nauseating. Continuing with your other posts of âensure[ing] the safety of the crewâŚâ, the cadets are the crew. They put in just as much work if not more because they are striving to work AND LEARN. AND maybe instead of removing a temptation, your should remove the problem. You âsirâ are a little man and deserve nothing. In the way your are speaking, I would imagine you as one of these persons who âgrab the ass of every girl (or boy) who walks byâ. Itâs simple in my mind, if youâre one to hide away and fix your problems by being a child about it, then youâre part of the problem. EG] What does one do when their small and young and INCOMPETENT child continues to throw a toy on the ground? The parents takes it away. Seems like this is right up your speed. I agree, identifying a rapist can be difficult. But, how about instead of thinking like an amateur, we as an industry and group of people should punish those who have done wrong. The amount of stories that are swept under the rug or brushed off the shoulder help to escalate this problem. An example must be made and held strongly industry wide. Your thoughts, your personality, you as a person is disgusting. I can only hope that you really think about what you have said and find insight. I imagine you will just respond to this with more bullsh*t, but hey, you canât fix stupid. Continue to be a little man if you must, or choose to open your eyes.
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What you are saying is that itâs a masterâs job to police and babysit a crew, to vet them and watch them on and off duty. Thatâs Big Brother shit. Even the Gestapo would have a hard time with that level of surveillance and psychoanalysis. Maybe on a little tug but on a ship?
In my previous series of posts Iâve pointed out how the cadet program is now bad for the cadets, bad for the master and crew, bad for the companies, bad for the schools, bad for administrators/appointees. I struggle to see how itâs good for anyone except the majority of cadets who get nice - but far from necessary - experience on their months long field trip.
There are two options here. Either we reduce but not eliminate the number of sexual assaults with surveillance, more programs, hotlines, training and whatever else. Or it can be stopped.
I now doubt it will be stopped this time. It seems there are too many people, like yourself, who think a few raped cadets is a reasonable price to pay for a summer fun field trip for the rest of the class.
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We can all agree this is a terrible situation and the crimes committed are heinous. I also think we can all agree that those individuals that are perpetrating these acts need to be brought to justice.
We are all professionals and we all take pride in our profession.
It is a terrible stain on the industry and itâs not about state academies vs kings point cadets and which provides the lower risk approach to training.
Itâs about what is right form a simple question of humanity and dignity. Long days of working at sea far from home is not an excuse for bad behavior.
I donât think we are asking anyone to be policeman or investigators. I think we are asking everyone from the new third mate to the master to work to eliminate the potential for abuse or abusive situations.
If I had the answer to issue I would have passed it along to those running the programs at Kingpoint and the various academies. I donât have that answer. And unfortunately neither does anyone I see posting on this thread.
What I do know is we are all invested in a safer work environment for all involved. Forget they are cadets. Letâs think about how each one of us wants to be treated. Letâs think about how we would want our sons and daughters treated!!!
I hate every part of this discussion, but the only reason I have posted here is because I couldnât sit on the sideline any longer. The issues raised in the blog need to be addressed. Period end of discussion. Its not about sea year for King point or cadet shipping for state schools. Its about our future and the credibility we have in attracting future leaders to this industry.
Either we help solve the issue or we will see it consume us all. Better we help shape our own destiny. I donât know about everyone on this blog, but I want this issue solved and I want a safer environment for all of us.
I am not a person who shames anyone, but I am someone who feels the need to step up and try and make a difference even if itâs one ship at a time. I challenge all of you to think the same way.
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And what youâre saying is that you should never be a Captain. Laugh. Out. Loud. You; hilarious. It is everyoneâs job to hold each other accountable. Iâm saying that if an incident occurs onboard oneâs ship as the Captain or as ANY crew member onboard, it is that persons responsibility to hold the person doing wrong accountable. Each and EVERY person involved cannot be a silent bystander. That is how we have gotten to where we are today. You are playing the cowards card by saying we should eliminate cadet shipping rather than holding those accountable for ILLEGAL AND INHUMANE actions. There are not two options, please open your eyes. Not everything is black and white, and thatâs what we as a community are fighting for. For justice for those who have been wronged and their abusers were never brought to light. Itâs not fair to further harm the cadets by taking away arguably the most important part of their school career because they have been victimized?!?! Itâs outrageous and sad to see. As someone who has sailed twice as a cadet, I learned the most sailing than my four years in school. I understand that not everyone has a good experience, but those same people who have come forth with their bad experiences have also said that taking away cadet shipping is more harm than good. Do you know this? As someone who has experienced sexual assault, hiding from learning does not help. What we really want to see is justice. The people who have faced the most damage are somehow still more courageous that you. We are willing to fight for whatâs right and you are not. How is that possible? And cadet shipping is not bad for companies, its how a lot of companies create relations with their future hires. Itâs how schools help teach their students to become better mariners. Itâs not a field trip. I suppose maybe you never cadet sailed or youâre just âone of the boysâ who never got treated unfairly and doesnât want to see any growth in this industry. I hope you get your Karma fair and square for the last sentence. A horrible and nauseating thing to write. YOU are the problem. YOU are the issue. GROW UP. YOU are too ignorant and selfish it appears to actually read and see whatâs happening right in front of you. Read the cadets who have come forth about their experiences and still vote yes for cadet shipping. Because, it seems youâre putting words into their mouth and fabricating your own stories. If youâre at least going to comment, read the whole story.
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what will happen to the KP cadets missing out on seatime during this sea year stand down? they already tried doing a sea year stand down a few years back and that obviously didnât work so what will shutting it down once again do to change things?
Iâm asking this in good faith⌠are you an academy grad yourself? If not, no offense, but youâre missing the value in cadet shipping. To those who havenât done it, it seems as no big deal since they had their own way of breaking in and learning.
You started this line of discussion with talking about cadets being relegated to clean toilets and chip and paint since theyâre just cheap labor. While, perhaps, getting some experience with that is necessary, itâs not ultimately what a cadet should be out there for. Not everyone at an academy is a silver spoon privileged individual. Most are eager to learn and, though itâs not seen on the ship, theyâve also gone through (in one form or another) a plebe/mug year where theyâve been broken down, done the shit jobs (including cleaning toilets) and molded to learn to follow before they lead. Yes, some bring poorer attitudes to the vessels they cadet ship on but you deal with those on an individual basis then.
Echoing what other academy grads here have come out and said, Iâll say that the time I spent cadet shipping was the most valuable part of my education. Yes, some things need to be learned in a classroom but taking that academic theory out to sea on a real ship and see how things really work before getting licensed was invaluable. Most of my time on the ships is still engrained in my head, including some lessons learned that still resonate with me today.
For the sake of our industry, cadet shipping shouldnât go away and certainly not for the reason that some creeper dinosaurs canât keep it in their pants (or, for that matter, hold onboard raging keggers with kids a third their age) while everyone else looks away. Time to grow up.
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Actually having the rapist prosecuted would be an awesome start towards progress, it would set a precedent whereby would-be rapists would be deterred from raping.
Iâm not sure why nothing has been done yet except for anonymous blogging. Itâs like a bad episode of one of those Law & Order spin-offs.
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Did anyone listen to the Industry round table today? Iâd be interested in you reactions?