As to mate’s pay:
The webpage is not trying to attract anyone. The webpage is trying to prevent every Tom, Dick,and Harry from calling the company in the first place. Put mid-$500’s as a wage on a website and the company would be awash with applications. Even without advertising that was the case December / January during the Collapse. The mate pay on the website of $350 to $380 is for second mates (i.e. academy mates, usually). With the exception of the Coastal Standard second mates are not required by the company. Hence, they are paid no more than an AB, since they know little more than an AB. That’s not disrespect for the prospective 2nd mate. That’s respect for the mate with 20 years with the company, who doesn’t want a greenhorn being paid anywhere near as much as he or she. The company has all the mates it needs, so why pay an extraneous unskilled-for-the-trade crew member more? Just takes money away from someone with seniority.
Nevertheless the company does sail second mates, though not legally necessary. They are all brought up from within the company, and so make more than ABs.
As for drinking the Kool-Aid:
Look at the detailed, and somewhat amusing, FAQs at www.cticrew.com. Not a company that sugar-coats how very hard the work is. Not a company looking to hire the average mariner. Very hard job physically and mentally, and the company expends hours per prospective employee letting them know that before hiring. And yet the mystery of low injuries and low turnover…
Perhaps what some infer as “drinking the Kool-Aid” is pride in a hard, detail-oriented trade executed well by experienced, seasoned seamen. As opposed to other mariners (none of whom read or respond to this forum of course) who take pride in making the most money possible for the least amount of work. I hasten to add, again, that no one on this forum is like that.
[QUOTE=freighterman;178661]FYI: There is only [U]ONE[/U] company that operates ATA fish tenders, of which there are a grand total of 5 ships, employing 64 mariners. It is a trade consisting of a [U]single[/U] company. There has been only one ATA fish tender company since 2005. So the company training regime is, de facto, the industry standard.
As for pay (numerical averages): mates mid-$500’s. ABs mid-$300s. Numerical averages again. Some higher. Some lower. New people coming into the system are paid much less than experienced people. That being said, low turnover operation for many years now. Not looking to hire more people.“Greenest” captain started with company in 2002. Occasionally hires a captain from outside the fold for a summer relief, but unusual now.
Specialized knowledge: how to load and stow everything from frozen pollock to automobiles. Also, navigating the Inside Passage and Peninsula Inside. Can only get that knowledge from years of experience working in the trade. Guess you can say that about any maritime trade, though.
Not looking to say the company is better than others. Have to state the truth: the safety record speaks for itself.[/QUOTE]
I congratulate you on the acquisition of your new vessel.
You run a good company that has trained and benefited a great many mariners. You have served the maritime industry and Alaska well for many years.
I wish you many years of continued success.
Note: I am not affiliated with Coastal Transportation, or Western Pioneer in anyway. However, I have seen their vessels in action during all seasons for 35 years. I have sailed with many Mariners over the last 35 years that have previously sailed for Western Pioneer or Coastal Transportation. These guys are among the best Mariners in the US.
I think it is great to see new boats being built beyond tugs and oil field boats.
Wish I knew about that when I got out of school, I would have liked that work.
There’s nothing wrong with mate’s making in the 500’s if it’s on a good boat with good crew with good benefits.
There is something to be said for starting guys out low, so that you are getting guys committed to learning to be mariners, and making a life of it, not just guys looking for the money.
I am so sick of non-Mariners just putting in time for money — while they think they know it all.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;178676]There is something to be said for starting guys out low, so that you are getting guys committed to learning to be mariners, and making a life of it, not just guys looking for the money.
I am so sick of non-Mariners just putting in time for money — while they think they know it all.[/QUOTE]
While I agree with the sentiment that doesn’t really apply to highly experienced deck officers. $500 is what I would expect an experienced offshore Mate to make so admitting that once checked out the mate will get a raise (or however it works) won’t cause a flood of applications because they’re already making that. Or say pay is $350-$550 a day depending on experience and qualifications.
[QUOTE=Capt. Phoenix;178678]While I agree with the sentiment that doesn’t really apply to highly experienced deck officers. $500 is what I would expect an experienced offshore Mate to make so admitting that once checked out the mate will get a raise (or however it works) won’t cause a flood of applications because they’re already making that. Or say pay is $350-$550 a day depending on experience and qualifications.[/QUOTE]
As he explained , the “second mates” , that are not required, are mostly glorified deckhands. They work their asses off handling cargo and doing other chores n addition to learning the wheelhouse. In most of Alaska, there are no longshoremen, the crew, including the mates, are hands on and do it all.
What is a “highly experienced deck officer” ?
Do you mean an officer that can handle a single screw vessel without any thrusters? (Most of their boats have none).
Do you mean an officer that can handle routine heavy weather all winter in Alaska?
Do you mean an officer with detailed local knowledge of Washington, British Columbia, Southeast Alaska, South Central Alaska, the Alaska Penninsula, the Aleutians, Bristol Bay, and the Pribiloffs? (That’s thousands (yes thousands) of miles of routes and alternate routes).
Do you mean an officer that can get in and out of tiny tidal gunk holes with strong currents and secure a vessel to the dock where it will go dry, so that it will not break free and slide a quarter mile away on slippery glacial silt when the tide goes out?
Do do you mean an officer that knows how to hands on handle a wide variety of cargo, including frozen fish?
There is no highly experienced officer anywhere else that could do this job, unless he has this specific experience.
Certainly, no one bayou port and two offshore rig button masher could do this job. Neither could the best large ATB master. Just like a lot of other things, it requires specialized knowledge and skills that cannot be learned overnight. The only way to get it is by doing it.
Point well taken.
The bigger picture is this:
In a well-run, experienced company the “advertising” and hiring process for employees is simultaneously designed to A) attract only a certain type of applicant and B) dissuade all others from applying. Lots and lots of applicants out there. Only a few can do the job to standards. Even fewer who will actually enjoy doing the job, which is what you are really looking for: people who can do detailed, hard work in a harsh environment and love doing it. Tiny subset of the workforce. so how do you separate the wheat from the chaff?
Without a well-designed “advertising/vetting” process you spend a lot of precious time talking to people who aren’t going to work out, which helps no one. The typical mate applicant at Coastal is a newly-minted academy graduate. Very good people. Well educated people. Great stock. I was one of them. But, with rare exceptions,they are not suitable for the work due to lack of experience and mindset. Nor do they want to do it–though it takes an hour of talking to them to get that point across, and time is money.
Better to have a process that scares away the Looky-Lous, so that only the people who have done their homework apply. Low turnover in the company, so they can afford to be choosy. Looking at the FAQs on the website it’s apparent mates aren’t needed from outside. But if a good one, a suitable one truly wants to work there they will find a way through, if they are persistent enough [B]and[/B] they fit the bill.
If Coastal advertises $500 for mates–even in the sense of a future possibility–then that is going to chum a lot of applicants, meaning a lot of work answering phones. Which is why they only respond to mailed applications. If you can’t bother to fill out the forms and mail them in you probably don’t have a burning desire to load frozen fish in -10 degree cargo holds in a blizzard in the Aleutian islands, or navigate 800 miles of rock strewn navigational passages where GPS is only partially useful to keep afloat, or encounter storm after storm crossing the Gulf of Alaska in a single winter. And if you don’t want “to be there” why would anyone want to work alongside you?
What goes for mates goes for ABs.
The harder the hiring process is, the better the employees you hire.
FYI: all our ships nowadays have thrusters. Sometimes two. Great for our captains’ stomach linings. Bad for the ship handlers of tomorrow, but that is another reason Coastal has a single-screw training boat.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;178667]Fraq That is a really low blow that is completely uncalled for. I strongly suggest that you edit your post .[/QUOTE]
Fraq is a little DARLING and a PHENOMENALLY PHINE PHELLOW! He knows all, sees all and tells all about everything and is NEVER wrong
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who? what Where? how?
if he would like, he is welcome to return his head to that place…I ain’t gonna say anything
Come on Fraq, man up and delete that low blow. You are a better man than that.
YEAH! What he said!
It does speak volumes for c.captains character though, how he has handled the Matter at least publicly.
This is the worst kept secret on this forum. Since I seem to be his main antagonist most of the time people are obliged to message me all sorts of goodies. People that made an account for the sole purpose of sending me the dirt with no further explanation or communication beyond that. I could make an ESPN Films 30 for 30 of his life. I’m not that kind of guy I wouldn’t put him out there like that. He knows who I am and has my email and I’d give him my number if he asked me so he could yell at me. I would actually like to see him yell about something on video chat. I bet he gesticulates like a mad man and pounds his fists.
It’s been redacted, he could have just denied it like usual, he outed himself.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;178697]This is the worst kept secret on this forum. Since I seem to be his main antagonist most of the time people are obliged to message me all sorts of goodies. People that made an account for the sole purpose of sending me the dirt with no further explanation or communication beyond that. I could make an ESPN Films 30 for 30 of his life. I’m not that kind of guy I wouldn’t put him out there like that. He knows who I am and has my email and I’d give him my number if he asked me so he could yell at me. I would actually like to see him yell about something on video chat. I bet he gesticulates like a mad man and pounds his fists.[/QUOTE]
Just because you and I (and a few others here) know something, and 100 people from Chouest, Shell and Noble are egging you on with malice in their hearts to spill the beans. does not mean that private info about someone should be broadcast on the Internet.
I haven’t and I wouldn’t and he knows that.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;178706]I haven’t and I wouldn’t and he knows that.[/QUOTE]
Good man Fraq. I just saw your edit.
I edited mine too.
C.captain, edit your posts.
Everyone else do the same.
[QUOTE=tugsailor;178709]Good man Fraq. I just saw your edit.
I edited mine too.
C.captain, edit your posts.
Everyone else do the same.[/QUOTE]
roger wilco
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[QUOTE=z-drive;178696]It does speak volumes for c.captains character though, how he has handled the Matter at least publicly.[/QUOTE]
It really does…doesn’t it?
Yeah you’re a real piece of work alright.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;178697]It’s been redacted, he could have just denied it like usual, he outed himself.[/QUOTE]
the thing is that I just don’t give a shit anymore if people here know if I am or am not a KP graduate. Too many years (over 7 if my math is correct) of hiding from the truth made me weary of always denying it and I am actually glad to have it now revealed. My position is abundantly clear concerning that place and what I want to see done to it nor do I have the slightest sentiment towards it. I went there because my dad wanted for me to and I bought into the propaganda that somehow the place was in fact as special as they said. I hated every day I was there and when I discovered that being a KP grad was a mark against you in the industry (unless you were a ringknocking dick smoker) did the disillusionment set in and the seething anger began at having been duped by “them”.
Of course, my dad had no wishes at all for me to go to sea but to become a manager at Foss or Crowley early on and rise through the ranks to the top. He died a very disappointed man in that regard but he never understood how his son held the industry in such disdain and could never have been a successful insider playing Joe Boss. Some of us are just meant to bulldoze our own path even if it is up very steep and rocky terrain.
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Oh. Oh. Oh. Looks like you have a little more editing to do.
[QUOTE=Fraqrat;178713]Yeah you’re a real piece of work alright.[/QUOTE]
again