That’s my understanding also which is why I’m curious of the details of the S&R case.
Of note from the flowchart above:
-
S&R process is initiated even if the initial investigation doesn’t meet the bar for referral to the DOJ.
-
S&R investigation is initiated even if a case is referred to the DOJ and the DOJ either: a) declines to accept the case or b) accepts the case and a non-guilty verdict is returned.
1 Like
I am suprised anyone would hire this guy. What if it happened again? I think the next victim would end up owning the company that owned the ship.
2 Likes
A US company might not but he could probably sign up foreign and keep sailing and reoffending.
I have heard that this is in the works, along with a camera requirement in public areas in the accommodation. (Looks like H.R.6866 - Safer Seas Act has stalled in the house, not sure what’s going on there)
Notification does not equal investigation.
If some slime ball keeps racking up CGIS investigations were its “He said She said,” or “there is no evidence,” It’s a useful datapoint in future investigations. Someone out there is also keeping track of our arrest records despite not being convicted, and that’s not a problem for me, because I’ve never been arrested. If a cop stops you outside piggily wiggly is like “hey, I see you’ve been arrested for shoplifting three times but never convicted” and then a jar of peanut butter rolls out your pantleg; hopefully we can all see how this is no longer looking like a coincidence.
At the end of the day unreported incidents far outweigh false accusations, and statistically a very small percentage are false, so as long as you aren’t trying to fuck your coworkers, you should be okay.
2 Likes
I wouldn’t doubt that one bit but his S&R proceeding are (supposedly) going on currently.
Not aware because it’s outside my normal responsibilities and work. I could do some research, but 1) I don’t want to, and 2) you learn early in law school not to give legal advice to anyone not your client and then only if you have done the research, and on that see number 1. So, short answer, I don’t know.
5 Likes
There’s this thing called due process and innocent until proven guilty. Due process protections are found in the 5th, 6th, 8th and 14th ammendments. It is considered sacred to most constitutional lawyers. Just because police are bad at solving crimes and witness don’t come forward in a timely fashion doesn’t mean due process and innocent until proven guilty should be suspended. Thanks.
2 Likes
Are you saying that investigation is not part of due process? If that was the case no crimes of any kind would ever be investigated.
Edit: This page actually has some great information on the entire S&R process, should one find them selves facing license action by CG.
This isn’t a court of law.
Investigations fall under the 4th amendment that prohibit unlawful searches a siezures. Plenty of innocent people get investigated. Destroying their lives is not a lawful part of the investigative process. Thanks.
1 Like
Yeah… after the 2006 Duke lacrosse case I learned to sit back and let the facts unfold as the investigations are carried out.
Boy, a lot of amped up people were embarrassed after that one.
6 Likes
If this isnt a court of law then we have no right to convict someone in public. A jury of his peers is required for that. Using corporate kangaroo courts and opaque government agency to harass people administratively is no way to get justice. Thanks.
2 Likes
Frederick Schauer, a legal scholar and philosopher, has argued that the presumption of innocence is primarily a legal principle that applies only in the context of criminal proceedings. He has emphasized that the presumption of innocence is based on the idea that the state has the burden of proving guilt and that the accused should not be required to prove their innocence.
However, outside of the criminal justice system, Schauer has suggested that the presumption of innocence may not apply in the same way, and that individuals and organizations may be justified in making judgments about a person’s character or suitability based on their past behavior or conduct, including any prior arrests or criminal convictions.
From ChatGPT
1 Like
The idea that kangaroo courts should be decided in the court of public opinion is exactly what id expect from chatgpt. Completely biased against due process. If there is no criminal or civil judgment id think an organization that causes punative damages to an individual would be liable if damages could be proven.
I’ve got Schauer’s book here, that’s a very good summary of his ideas.
I’ve worked with schmucks who’ve been convicted of nothing, but I definitely still reserve the right to pass judgment on them for their schmuckery. I’ve also fired people for doing things which, while not illegal, are not in the best interest of the company.
If I’m reading that CFR correctly S&R can be initiated for incompetence (as related to operating the vessel). Or misconduct. It is specifically not required that someone be convicted in order to be sanctioned.
The USCG actually following the CFR does not make it a kangaroo court, though perhaps an anomaly.
1 Like