Before the tanker Prestige sank in 2002 it was, according to ABS “in class”. However Captain Kostazo[I]s [/I]reported that the ship was heavy corroded, had cracked frames and suffered engine problems. Captain Kostazos was replaced by Captain Apostolo Mangouras who sailed the vessel[I]. [/I]The pilot “expressed grave misgivings about the seaworthiness of the vessel”
After the Prestige broke in half and sank ABS claimed it was the owner that was responsible for the seaworthiness of the vessel.
Now the five year old MOL Comfort has broken in half in the Indian Ocean in typical monsoon conditions. NK has released a statement saying the vessel was “fully compliant” with class rules;
When a class society says a vessel is “in class” or compliant with class rules does that mean anything beyond the fact that the owners payment to the class society was good?
[QUOTE=Kennebec Captain;114218]Before the tanker Prestige sank in 2002 it was, according to ABS “in class”. However Captain Kostazo[I]s [/I]reported that the ship was heavy corroded, had cracked frames and suffered engine problems. Captain Kostazos was replace by Captain Apostolo Mangouras who sailed the vessel[I]. [/I]The pilot “expressed grave misgivings about the seaworthiness of the vessel”
After the Prestige broke in half and sank ABS claimed it was the owner that was responsible for the seaworthiness of the vessel.
Now the five year old MOL Comfort has broken in half in the Indian Ocean in typical monsoon conditions. NK has released a statement saying the vessel was “fully compliant” with class rules;
When a class society says a vessel is “in class” or compliant with class rules does that mean anything beyond the fact that the owners payment to the class society was good?[/QUOTE]
No, because class societies are just so the insurance companies have something to hang their hats on. They are funded by ownership so they are beholden to the owners. They mean well but are a legal scam like the FAA. If an owner does not care, u can still be a member and just blow off reporting things to the society. I saw it with a previous engagement and saw it when I wore a blue suit.
If an owner wants to sail crap, they will sail crap, pure and simple. If a Master reports things to the owner and class society it will be ignored and the Master will, in most cases, lose his job. Anybody that thinks different is living in a fantasy world.
I’ve seen some surveyors who have done the “right” thing here and there, others that don’t. Look at the crap Moran and McAllister get signed off out of Norfolk Vs what some of us have to fix every survey to keep ABS happy.
Never get our balls broken but they like to find things every time and make us fix them. Nothing too extreme since I sail on fairly new tonnage but they NEVER leave without a list of items for us to correct; typically they are pretty fair though.
Is the issue with that ship a design thing, or an obvious wastage issue? Would be tough to pin it on class of it was a “proven” ship design that had been in service with limited wastage.
the RINA surveyor who surveyed the vessel prior to its sinking went to prison
Updated - - -
[QUOTE=BMCSRetired;114220]No, because class societies are just so the insurance companies have something to hang their hats on. They are funded by ownership so they are beholden to the owners. They mean well but are a legal scam like the FAA. If an owner does not care, u can still be a member and just blow off reporting things to the society. I saw it with a previous engagement and saw it when I wore a blue suit.
If an owner wants to sail crap, they will sail crap, pure and simple. If a Master reports things to the owner and class society it will be ignored and the Master will, in most cases, lose his job. Anybody that thinks different is living in a fantasy world.[/QUOTE]
except if the vessel in a foreign port gets detained - with an anonymous report…
Thats how you get them fixed
[QUOTE=BMCSRetired;114220]No, because class societies are just so the insurance companies have something to hang their hats on. They are funded by ownership so they are beholden to the owners. They mean well but are a legal scam like the FAA. If an owner does not care, u can still be a member and just blow off reporting things to the society. I saw it with a previous engagement and saw it when I wore a blue suit.
If an owner wants to sail crap, they will sail crap, pure and simple. If a Master reports things to the owner and class society it will be ignored and the Master will, in most cases, lose his job. Anybody that thinks different is living in a fantasy world.[/QUOTE]
except the FAA is the government ya? and the rest are for profit private organisations that do what the customer tells them?
As a former Class society Surveyor, I can answer some of these. A Vessel is considered “Class Maintained” when the requirements for design and construction are approved by engineering and the construction and maintenance are considered to meet Class Requirements by a field Surveyor. Ultimately, the condition of the Vessel is in the hands of the opinion and experience of the field Surveyor. Yes, there are some good and some bad. I was never the type that felt it was necessary to find something wrong with a vessel every time I carried out a survey. That said, I was also not averse to assigning Conditions of Class (repairs necessary to maintain Class) for those Vessels (and barges and rigs, etc.) that warranted it. Often times these repairs or conditions are deferred for completion either to the next available survey or three months, depending on the type and severity of the non-compliance. Some repairs, and especially those onboard bulk carriers can not be deferred, and must be carried out prior to completion of a survey and/or sailing.
I have first hand experience of a vessel not meeting the field Surveyor’s repair recommendations (mine) and the Owner then changing Class to another society. THAT Surveyor then issued a report that the Vessel met those Class requirements. New trading certificates were issued and the Vessel sailed.
Can there be collusion? You bet. I don’t know what other societies are doing, but I do believe that ABS has instituted two surveyors to work together; but that has happened before I left. Ultimately, the ship owner is the responsible party when it comes to maintaining a vessel fit for service, and a Class Society merely confirms it.
Of course any vessel can be 'Fully Compliant" with Class Rules and still have faults, especially of the Rules are faulty.
I hope that this loss of the MOL COMFORT shakes the trees a bit.
[QUOTE=captaint76;114600]My only guess is an oxidizer in a container got wet. Only guess that I have at this point.[/QUOTE]
My guess is that it is cargo related as well. All the frozen cargo is thawing out, maybe leaking out, damaged containers might be leaking, mixing various types of cargo. There may also be fuel oil in the cargo holds getting into the containers.
I remember the APL Washington was in a collision off Pusan a few years back and the containers caught fire a few days later.
[QUOTE=john;114597]Can anyone give a plausible reason why the bow caught fire? …because I can’t think of one.[/QUOTE]
There are some hazardous cargoes that require refrigeration. Hydrazine is one that we used to carry in a 20 foot tank container. Perhaps it was something similar. There is some gawdawful methyl ethyl killyainaheartbeat stuff sitting in those containers you see moving up and down the Sound every day.
[QUOTE=john;114597]Can anyone give a plausible reason why the bow caught fire? …because I can’t think of one.[/QUOTE]
Any reefer containers with a power pack on deck? That was one scenario. The comments on a hazardous cargo requiring refrigeration are plausible, as well.
Most container ships reefers are stowed behind the house, all together and plugged into the ships power. Lot of talk about improperly declared containers. She was sailing from China who has very strict export controls and inspection of containers prior to loading. They charge export duty so the government has a stake in what goes on board Boxes were destined to countries that also have strict import controls and inspections. My guess is you can rule out mis declared, Sailing from the US no effective control or inspection, haz cargo is stowed as declared by the shippers, only thing anybody looks at is paper never the cargo itself. Haz rates higher than non haz so there is incentive to mis declare. My guess is something broke loose inside a box and leaked on something else that caused the combustion. Container ship steaming runs fairly smooth, loose power start rolling in heavy seas all kinds of things break loose. Many years ago I went on board a Zim ship that lost power and rolled for a week or so before tugs could take her in tow. The destruction inside the house was amazing to see. Interior bulkheads gone everything rolled back and forth grinding all to un reconziable scrap